The God Debate v2

[boboy1999]

Right. I am not sure if anyone has said this and it might be a little long and maybe slightly too complex but anyways.

I believe that everything must have a starting point so for this universe to exist, someone or something must have created it and that something was the Big Bang of course. However, something else must have triggered the Big Bang and I believe that what triggered the Big Bang was God. However, saying that, some people can argue "who created God if everything must have a starting point or let's say, have a creator".

It was at that point that I came across a video explaining about a concept called "infinite regress" and basically, it is like, let's imagine that I am playing Call of Duty and I am about to shoot a guy, however, before shooting that guy, I must ask permission to my commander who then, in a hypothetical situation, has to ask permission to the person in charge above them about me shooting the guy and that person above them has to ask the commander above them also and this can go on to the infinite. Now, if everyone keeps on asking the person above them over and over again, I will practically never be able to actually shoot as the commanders would just be asking for permissions to the ones above them each time whether I can shoot or not. So, in this scenario, I am unable to actually shoot unless I get permission from above but if this request of permission goes through the infinite past, I will never get a definite person who can tell me "yes, you can shoot."

Now, that may sound stupid but it is useful because it can be applied to the universe. So, if I say, what or who created the universe, and then I ask who or what created the creator of the universe and then I ask who created this creator, this question would go for infinity without an end. However, if infinity has no end, we would essentially never get to a universe being created seeing as, if there are an infinite amount of creators, something would be created from the current universe too and this would go on forever. Just to paraphrase that again, for the creator who created this universe to have created this universe, he must have been dependant on the creator before him but if that creator is lost in the infinite past, we would never get to the creator that created this universe. Therefore, seeing as this universe exists, it proves that whoever created this universe (God) didn't have a creator as it had to have an ultimate source.

Just try and read this a few times and try to understand it. It is a little complex but hopefully you get the idea.

If the answer is "God always existed" then we have a situation, from a causality standpoint, that is no more satisfying than a universe that springs forth from nothing. A creator that has always existed is an entity that somehow exists without a cause.

So this answer doesn't solve the causality issue whatsoever.

It is better to say I don't know other than God did it. If you don't know something that doesn't mean God did it, it just means we don't know the answer! If you wanna say God started the big bang then sat back and watched the whole thing take place. Does that mean God doesn't interfere with anything?

 

[Twistology]

The reason is God gave us the ability to make our own decisions, that's why the world is the way it is. I don't fully understand it myself, and I might not ever, but I have to rely on faith. I don't expect you to understand though.

Fair enough, that's your belief, but you don't have to condescend me because I have a different one.

 

[Tahsin]

If the answer is "God always existed" then we have a situation, from a causality standpoint, that is no more satisfying than a universe that springs forth from nothing. A creator that has always existed is an entity that somehow exists without a cause.

So this answer doesn't solve the causality issue whatsoever.

It is better to say I don't know other than God did it. If you don't know something that doesn't mean God did it, it just means we don't know the answer! If you wanna say God started the big bang then sat back and watched the whole thing take place. Does that mean God doesn't interfere with anything?

But a Creator existing is a more reasonable theory compared to any other theory.

 

[boboy1999]

But a Creator existing is a more reasonable theory compared to any other theory.

Any other theory has actual evidence to support it. Its not called the theory of God. A theory needs evidence. The fact that God created everything has absolutely no evidence. Would it be fine to say Bigfoot did it? We have as much evidence for Bigfoot as we do God. Tell me, why is it more reasonable? You also totally ignored my point I made in my previous comment.

 

[ChibiGoose]

Any other theory has actual evidence to support it. Its not called the theory of God. A theory needs evidence. The fact that God created everything has absolutely no evidence. Would it be fine to say Bigfoot did it? We have as much evidence for Bigfoot as we do God. Tell me, why is it more reasonable? You also totally ignored my point I made in my previous comment.

We find it more reasonable because of how complex everything is, a lot of people can't come to believe it all started by chance.

Fair enough, that's your belief, but you don't have to condescend me because I have a different one.

I totally agree, we all have our reasons for what we believe.

 

[boboy1999]

We find it more reasonable because of how complex everything is, a lot of people can't come to believe it all started by chance.

I totally agree, we all have our reasons for what we believe.

Because something is complex, we just make up something very simple to answer it? If something like the creation of the universe and everything we know is VERY complex, then why are we coming up with a very basic answer like God to explain such complexity. You have no reason for what you believe. There is no reasoning. Its just blind belief and confusion.
The answer to such complexity surely shouldn't be as simple as creation.

 

[ChibiGoose]

Because something is complex, we just make up something very simple to answer it? If something like the creation of the universe and everything we know is VERY complex, then why are we coming up with a very basic answer like God to explain such complexity. You have no reason for what you believe. There is no reasoning. Its just blind belief and confusion.
The answer to such complexity surely shouldn't have a simple answer.

I disagree. I find that people make things way more complicated then they need to be, but I'm sure you have your reasons/evidence saying otherwise. I don't find the idea of evolution complex either though. It's basically luck, luck isn't complex (in the sense of it beginning, not the idea of things evolving afterwards, I just mean the start).

 

[boboy1999]

I disagree. I find that people make things way more complicated then they need to be, but I'm sure you have your reasons/evidence saying otherwise. I don't find the idea of evolution complex either though. It's basically luck, luck isn't complex (in the sense of it beginning, not the idea of things evolving afterwards, I just mean the start).

Obviously you haven't read a single thing about evolution. If you have you wouldn't be saying that ridiculous comment that evolution isn't complex and its simply by luck. Im not going to sit here and give you a lesson on evolution. I mean no offense to you but please don't try to debate me when you have no idea what you are saying.

 

[ChibiGoose]

Obviously you haven't read a single thing about evolution. If you have you wouldn't be saying that ridiculous comment that evolution isn't complex and its simply by luck. Im not going to sit here and give you a lesson on evolution. I mean no offense to you but please don't try to debate me when you have no idea what you are saying.

Maybe but if it's so complex then I would find it less likely. The main reason I believe what I do is from experience, I can talk to god, I can't talk to evolution >_>

 

[Evermore]

I can talk to god,

Does he ever respond though?

 

[ChibiGoose]

Does he ever respond though?

yes actually

 

[Laurey]

Personally I don't believe that there is any sort of 'God'. Nor do I believe in heaven and hell. To me, reading the bible is like reading twilight - they're both fictional and don't really make a great deal of sense. Some of the principals of some religions are respectable, but they're just common sense really. People are saying "Where's your scientific evidence for *thing*?!", but then, where's your evidence that god exists?

The arguments people seem to be using are things like the beginning of everything/the big bang and evolution. The reason people think that the big bang must have been created by someone or something else is because of time. "It can't have been there forever, something must have created it!" is a common thing to hear...but time is a human concept - we made it up. If you take time out of the equation, that beginning isn't so hard to imagine because before the big bang, those elements could always have been there. It's like the inconceivable idea that the universe has no end, that it just goes on and on and on. We can't wrap our heads around it because everything we know is contained within something else: you are in a room, which is part of a building in a county, which is part of a continent on the surface of the earth, a planet in a solar system in the milky way, in space which is in...what?

We've literally restricted our thinking by creating the idea of time and other things like it, but I don't think I will ever believe in some greater, otherworldly and invisible being whom is better than all of us and is some magical 'creator'.