"Pro" SG Players

[tom00117]

I'm Pro!
lol jk

 

[EvermoreHD]

Be that as it may, might I ask you what happens when you don't end up getting said items? As Gumby stated to a degree, MCSG is indeed a game based off of both skill AND chance. Taking into consideration how many times you have gone down each of your own personal chest routes, the act of doing so becomes extremely autonomous and eventually is done out of habit with very little thinking required which in turn translates to the whole process taking very little skill. There is absolutely no guarantee that you will get such gear before encountering an unpredictable outside entity/problem such as a team who intercepts you that ultimately leads to your death.

The chance of not getting at least a weapon and some armor from a chest route is slim. In addition, new maps seem to have an abundance of chests. Take Valleyside for example: It has multiple chests in basically every building. Again, I'm not saying the chance is not there; I'm saying the chance is very slim.

What happens when the pursuing tribute managed to snatch a sword from corn? The chances of you surviving such an unfortunate happening is slim to none assuming the player chases you until death. This is another thing that you simply can not control. Another quote pertaining to this specific matter: "However, the way in which someone is "skilled" isn't to prevent it, since that's impossible, but to lower the chances of it happening to as low as possible." You talk about how one is to use their skill to ensure that they lower the chances as much as possible. Like I just stated, you simply can not control whether or not someone with a stone sword will instantly go for you and kill you.

Most players do not chase a player to the ends of the earth unless he is famous, so the chance of this happening is already slim. Not to mention that if a player is specifically targeting you, they will probably not spot you after obtaining the sword. In addition, if you do not get a sword off spawn, you most likely will get some food or armor. If someone is chasing you, you have the distinct advantage of food, so they will run out of sprint first. Also, it does not take long to open a chest and grab a weapon, if present, in the chest. All this requires some skill, but also some chance. The main point is that the chance part is incredibly small.

Hackers and large teams can not be avoided because you can not control whether or not they are in your game. In the event there is a hacker in your game, the chances of you winning go down. If there is not, it goes up. The same goes for teams. As for the two being 'dealt' with, this does indeed rely on one's skill. Alongside that, however, it still more importantly relies on chance. If you have tools such as flint n' steel, a bow with arrows, or any other useful items, the chances of you winning against a team are substantially increased, as one would expect. Likewise, if you do not have the necessary items to take down a team, your chances of taking a team down are greatly decreased. And, as we all now know, the gear you have is a variable based on chance in accordance to your fortune with chests.

Though I agree with the hacker part, I disagree with the teams part. It takes a certain amount of skill to know what fight you can/cannot win. It takes even more skill to be able to efficiently avoid the "cannot win" fights until you find more gear. If a team spots you, when you are not ready to fight, it is entirely your fault for not avoiding the team. It takes skill to avoid the team until you have the necessary materials to take them down.

Now, I will not speak about the fishing rod technique because i do not have much information about it or use it. In brief, although MCSG is partly a game of chance, it is mostly skill. The chance part of the "MCSG Pie" makes up a small portion, probably less than 5%. As pointed out, there are variables to effect this, but skilled players will be able to surpass these variables and come out on top.

I hope this post makes some sense.

 

[Qualia]

Fishing rod them in the fayc and u r pro

 

[Venkin]

I cant agree with every point but with the most of them, i dont want to pick them out. In total i agree, nice thread.
But i think there are a few pros thats one of the points i cant agree with, dont want to list them because if i do ill create a giant fight

 

[G33ke]

You state "All I need from chests on my route is full leather/wooden sword to win the rest of the game"

Be that as it may, might I ask you what happens when you don't end up getting said items? As Gumby stated to a degree, MCSG is indeed a game based off of both skill AND chance. Taking into consideration how many times you have gone down each of your own personal chest routes, the act of doing so becomes extremely autonomous and eventually is done out of habit with very little thinking required which in turn translates to the whole process taking very little skill. There is absolutely no guarantee that you will get such gear before encountering an unpredictable outside entity/problem such as a team who intercepts you that ultimately leads to your death. Imagine you are going through your chest route and at the end of it, you find yourself with only some leather garments and no weapon. The chances of you surviving have a negative net change. On the other hand, if you were to be fortunate enough to find yourself with a mixture of chain/iron armor and a formidable weapon, the chances of you surviving take a positive net change. If there is one thing I am completely sure about, it is the fact that you can not control what spawns in the chests you get. Such an uncontrollable variable leads us to conclude that chance plays a formidable role relative to skill in MCSG.

What happens when the pursuing tribute managed to snatch a sword from corn? The chances of you surviving such an unfortunate happening is slim to none assuming the player chases you until death. This is another thing that you simply can not control. Another quote pertaining to this specific matter: "However, the way in which someone is "skilled" isn't to prevent it, since that's impossible, but to lower the chances of it happening to as low as possible." You talk about how one is to use their skill to ensure that they lower the chances as much as possible. Like I just stated, you simply can not control whether or not someone with a stone sword will instantly go for you and kill you.

Hackers and large teams can not be avoided because you can not control whether or not they are in your game. In the event there is a hacker in your game, the chances of you winning go down. If there is not, it goes up. The same goes for teams. As for the two being 'dealt' with, this does indeed rely on one's skill. Alongside that, however, it still more importantly relies on chance. If you have tools such as flint n' steel, a bow with arrows, or any other useful items, the chances of you winning against a team are substantially increased, as one would expect. Likewise, if you do not have the necessary items to take down a team, your chances of taking a team down are greatly decreased. And, as we all now know, the gear you have is a variable based on chance in accordance to your fortune with chests.

You mention things like missing with your fishing rod. This stated, you must ask yourself this: Are my misses due to my inadequate skill or are they due to the fact that I can not directly control the actions of my enemy and it is mostly chance in regards to whether or not they move the way I predicted them to move. You also go on to state how it is entirely possible to almost completely negate the luck chance in a fight as long as you do not have lag. The thing is, every single person in an MCSG server is being affected by lag. And, as we all know, the more noticeable effects are usually negative ones. But, it is unfair to say this is the case for everything as there are indeed many people who have a such an ample connection to the server that any negative lag is nearly 100% negligible. Alongside this, we can all agree that the amount of lag you are having on a particular day is not within your control due to the fact that there are varying occurrences such as server load and how well your internet service provider is doing that particular day.

Perhaps in your eyes this may be true but in reality it is not. A major reason for this is because the effectiveness of a fishing rod is directly reliant on ones lag. If you are experiencing negative lag, using the fishing rod effectively is, in many cases, simply not possible. For example, on servers where I lag to a noticeable extent, it takes a much longer time to deploy the fishing rod. On a server where I do not get noticeable lag, I can do so much quicker. No harm intended, I am truly baffled at your statement as it contradicts your original intent to convey the idea that the fishing rod is a fix for lag.

No.
For more info on why the truth is 'no', please refer to the text that can be found directly above.

Although frowned upon by some, for the third time I must pull out my response on threads similar to this one.
"It is impossible to determine pure skill off of a game like this.

Let me explain:
The Survival Games is a game of both skill and chance. Although it is not hard to come upon a general consensus on who is 'good' and 'bad', it is hard to pinpoint the best player(s). For example, let us say I am playing a game of Survival Games. I have full leather armor and a wooden sword. As for food, I only have uncooked porkchops. I end up running into a team of four people that all have higher tier gear... (chain/iron - stone/iron/diamond wep - flint n' steel - bow & arrow(s)) Chances are, I am going to die given that my opposition has an IQ that allows them to operate and function as your average human being. (You have to think about it, if they have gear as good as that, they must be somewhat decent at the game) On the other hand, I might be the one in full iron+diamond sword and I am faced with a team of four that have a few leather items and wooden axes.

Based off of these hypothetical but completely possible scenarios, we can deduce that there are a wide variety of variables in the game thus rendering it impossible to truly determine skill off of numerical statistics. Take Gravey4rd for example. Looking at his statistics, we can see periods where he is on streaks of both winning and losing. Of course we can all agree that he is a skilled player, but I would not doubt that during his streaks of winning, he was fortunate in many of those games with good chests as well as not having to deal with an enormous amount of teams. On the other hand, during his streaks of losing he probably had unfortunate occurrences such as bad chests, being chased from corn by armed tributes, or something along the lines of the first scenario listed above.

In the end, the Survival Games are not an accurate way to determine pure skill. In more basic terms, there is no 'best' player. A more accurate way of determining skill, especially in terms of PvP, would be to pit two players you want to compare against each other and give them identical gear. Then, have them fight on the same exact terrain about 100,000 times. But, to be more fair, switch their starting locations at the 50,000 halfway mark. Unfortunately, I don't expect anyone to ever do this as it is quite the task.
---End of on topic response---
Speaking of which, this leads me to believe there is an even more efficient way of determining a better player when comparing two. I believe it is entirely possible to develop both the hardware and software capable of performing millions of accurate simulations of Minecraft fights between two players. The only obstacle would be finding a method of accurately converting the mental and physical actions of each player into numerical values which would then be entered in when creating the AI. I have read/seen some people that have actually done something similar to this. (Deadliest Warrior's proprietary combat simulator)

But.....this is an entirely different topic that I feel will unfortunately never be made available for non-commercial use for a few more years."


As my English and History teachers always say: There are two types of papers I recieve: Regular papers and "Scott Papers"

(My first name is Scott)

I don't disagree with much of what you say.
But I still agree with what I said.
You seem to have misunderstood my post. I was not trying to argue that luck could be taken out of the game, just that it could be drastically reduced.

Funny thing is, yesterday, I had an extremely unlucky game, that I still managed to win.
Game starts, and the one good thing of the game happens immediately at corn...nearly full iron from a chest.
I go on my route (it's Teweran 2.) and grab every chest I possibly can...Out of like 10 chests, there wasn't a single weapon. (My chest route on the map is a bit weak, but still, this was a first.)
Now I'm in trouble, no weapon, I'm on the side of the map every player goes to...great.
I pick up a chest, it has an iron ingot in it. Yay! Now I can make an iron sword!
But there's no crafting table anywhere near me...
I have to go through two teams of 3, all in about full iron/iron swords, with absolutely nothing.
Whatever...they'll ignore me, right?
*Gets bountied for 1337 points*

Pretty much, I had to go through two teams of two in pretty much everything, who, by the way, when I got anywhere near them, they would forget the enemy team and bullet straight for me. I had six decked out guys chasing after me. It took some pretty fancy running away to get away from them (skill in running away from people is an actual thing.) to be able to craft, and even then, I was still left with 2 teams of 2. (Some people died.) In the end, I was in a water battle against three equally strong people to me, all focusing me down, two with bows and many, many arrows. (A bow was something I lacked.) Yet I still managed to take down these players. (And they were all pretty decent too, as proven by the amount of gear a team of three could have in the first few minutes.)

All of this...is an extremely rare occurrence for me. I never have to deal with what was essentially a team of six, and I also very, very rarely don't get a weapon. (This was the first time I didn't have a weapon in the first 2 minutes of a game since...two months ago.) Yet even still, my practice in running away and losing a large amount of people was able to pull me straight out of the bad situation. Sure, if they were a bit smarter, yes, they could have killed me, very easily...I got "lucky", in that sense. Consider, however, that a large amount of the other events that took place were extremely unlucky as it is.

You state "All I need from chests on my route is full leather/wooden sword to win the rest of the game"

Be that as it may, might I ask you what happens when you don't end up getting said items?

Full leather/wooden sword = (on average.) ~5 chests. If I can't find 5-8 chests in the first few minutes, I'm either playing on SG3, or I'm failing. The chances of 8 chests not containing a good amount of leather armor and a weapon of some sort is pretty unlikely as it is, but that's not even the extent of a large number of my chest routes...even on maps that I lack a chest route I get more than that before someone attacks me.

the act of doing so becomes extremely autonomous and eventually is done out of habit with very little thinking required which in turn translates to the whole process taking very little skill)

Yep. Did I say that part took a lot of skill? No. The thing is, even on maps where I lack a chest route, (which is a lot nowadays.) I still manage to do perfectly fine. I know where players will chase me, where they're likely to go at the beginning, how to lose them...I almost never have a problem with another player in the direction I go, let alone one trying to kill me with a weapon.

Imagine you are going through your chest route and at the end of it, you find yourself with only some leather garments and no weapon. The chances of you surviving have a negative net change. On the other hand, if you were to be fortunate enough to find yourself with a mixture of chain/iron armor and a formidable weapon, the chances of you surviving take a positive net change. If there is one thing I am completely sure about, it is the fact that you can not control what spawns in the chests you get. Such an uncontrollable variable leads us to conclude that chance plays a formidable role relative to skill in MCSG.

Chance does play a role...I wasn't trying to argue that it didn't, just that it could still be lowered to a point where it really hardly felt like it did anymore. All I need is full leather and a wooden sword, like I said, which I get at least that in almost all of my games, (usually far more: Half gold, half chain is about as low as I get in the average game from the chests I pick up alone.) and then from there...all I need to do is kill a few players for the rest of my gear, which proves to work quite well and relies mainly on the skill of my fighting, with the slight chance part coming from gear on my route.

What happens when the pursuing tribute managed to snatch a sword from corn? The chances of you surviving such an unfortunate happening is slim to none assuming the player chases you until death. This is another thing that you simply can not control. Another quote pertaining to this specific matter: "However, the way in which someone is "skilled" isn't to prevent it, since that's impossible, but to lower the chances of it happening to as low as possible." You talk about how one is to use their skill to ensure that they lower the chances as much as possible. Like I just stated, you simply can not control whether or not someone with a stone sword will instantly go for you and kill you.

No, I can't prevent that. At all. The last time it happened to me to the point of me dying? A little while ago. I get plenty of people who try, but either they are too far behind because I wasn't at corn long enough, (I don't stick in corn at all. I click a chest and try for one or two items, get out and sprint as quickly as possible.) or I manage to lose them. Sure, it hindered my progress in grabbing my route, but I still manage to live a good amount of times this happens...which is plenty. (Happens to me a lot on SG4, because sometimes the first chest on my route was taken by someone who skipped corn. They usually chase me for quite a while when this happens, but I've developed an easy way to shake them off...or anybody off on that map in general. Still a pain, but doesn't stop me from doing well in the game at all. Lowers chances? Sure, slim chance I live? No...)

I also want you to look at what I said a bit closer. You did notice that I mentioned chances...but you seemed to have completely missed the fact that that was what my post was about: How chances could be lowered. Nowhere in that post did I say that they could be negated and the game is pure skill: Chances play a fair role in it, but your job, as a good player, is to lower these chances as much as you possibly can. That's also why I mentioned the lag and stuff: There are some chance things that you simply cannot prevent, like derpy internet providers or server issues. Everyone has to deal with these, and it's a shame they can't just go away. That's something you just have to suck it up and forget about it. The lag making you lose doesn't change how good of a player you are in any way, all it does is effect the numbers your stats are showing...which don't mean anything anyway, and I never said they did.

Hackers and large teams can not be avoided because you can not control whether or not they are in your game. In the event there is a hacker in your game, the chances of you winning go down. If there is not, it goes up. The same goes for teams. As for the two being 'dealt' with, this does indeed rely on one's skill. Alongside that, however, it still more importantly relies on chance. If you have tools such as flint n' steel, a bow with arrows, or any other useful items, the chances of you winning against a team are substantially increased, as one would expect. Likewise, if you do not have the necessary items to take down a team, your chances of taking a team down are greatly decreased. And, as we all now know, the gear you have is a variable based on chance in accordance to your fortune with chests.

This is all true. However, dealing with teams/hackers or knowing how to avoid them is something you learn to do that changes these percentages to your gain. They still exist, the percentages, and the team/hacker in the game do still make the chances of winning lower than they would have been, but turning a 10% chance increase in losing to a 1% chance increase in losing is a big deal. (That's a bit exaggerated, it's an example.)

As well, having the necessary items also comes from killing other players who may have owned said items. I have many times come across a strong player/team/hackers just to leave them alone until I had things like these secondary items. Eventually, I come across a player who I can fight easily, who may own these items, or even just a lucky unlooted chest, but this is more unlikely at the likely point in the game this will take place. Occasionally, I will have one of those times where I have to fight a team/hacker with the lack of something like one of these weapons, however this isn't all that likely, and I do not require the item to win in a lot of cases.

You mention things like missing with your fishing rod. This stated, you must ask yourself this: Are my misses due to my inadequate skill or are they due to the fact that I can not directly control the actions of my enemy and it is mostly chance in regards to whether or not they move the way I predicted them to move. You also go on to state how it is entirely possible to almost completely negate the luck chance in a fight as long as you do not have lag. The thing is, every single person in an MCSG server is being affected by lag. And, as we all know, the more noticeable effects are usually negative ones. But, it is unfair to say this is the case for everything as there are indeed many people who have a such an ample connection to the server that any negative lag is nearly 100% negligible. Alongside this, we can all agree that the amount of lag you are having on a particular day is not within your control due to the fact that there are varying occurrences such as server load and how well your internet service provider is doing that particular day.

The miss I was referring to with my miss with a fishing rod was about a time where I was 100% sure it would hit and I acted upon it as if it did, causing me to misposition myself and take many hits, in the case of fighting a team, would cause me to get ping-ponged beyond my control. I'm talking about a time where it clear is moving towards them, a split second from hitting, going to hit right in the chest, and you preemptively charge forward to try to act upon the successful hit. This is a cause of a lag spike on my end or their end, where they appear in a different place than they actually are in. I consider this a fail because it's my fault I acted upon it too early and put myself in a bad position, or otherwise that I didn't pick up on the lag that could effect the fight. Upon a normal miss, I wouldn't have acted at all and instead ran off for another attempt, which would have cost me nothing. You're right, it's partly up to chance if it hits: However, it costs me nothing when it misses unless I was sure it was going to hit in the first place, which was a fail on my part.

Look above for internet things.

Perhaps in your eyes this may be true but in reality it is not. A major reason for this is because the effectiveness of a fishing rod is directly reliant on ones lag. If you are experiencing negative lag, using the fishing rod effectively is, in many cases, simply not possible. For example, on servers where I lag to a noticeable extent, it takes a much longer time to deploy the fishing rod. On a server where I do not get noticeable lag, I can do so much quicker. No harm intended, I am truly baffled at your statement as it contradicts your original intent to convey the idea that the fishing rod is a fix for lag.

(If there is too much lag, though, then it can't be helped. You can't hit someone with the rod if you're lagging that badly.)

I acknowledge that, and sadly, lag is just that bad for people and can't really be fixed. However, for a good portion of us, I'm talking about that tiny amount of lag more than you get in comparison to your opponent that makes it easier for the to land the extra hit on knockback or first hit in general. I'm not talking about the kind of lag you would get to another regions server. (Like someone in the US playing on EU.)

No.
For more info on why the truth is 'no', please refer to the text that can be found directly above.

Although frowned upon by some, for the third time I must pull out my response on threads similar to this one.
"It is impossible to determine pure skill off of a game like this.

Let me explain:
The Survival Games is a game of both skill and chance. Although it is not hard to come upon a general consensus on who is 'good' and 'bad', it is hard to pinpoint the best player(s). For example, let us say I am playing a game of Survival Games. I have full leather armor and a wooden sword. As for food, I only have uncooked porkchops. I end up running into a team of four people that all have higher tier gear... (chain/iron - stone/iron/diamond wep - flint n' steel - bow & arrow(s)) Chances are, I am going to die given that my opposition has an IQ that allows them to operate and function as your average human being. (You have to think about it, if they have gear as good as that, they must be somewhat decent at the game) On the other hand, I might be the one in full iron+diamond sword and I am faced with a team of four that have a few leather items and wooden axes.

Based off of these hypothetical but completely possible scenarios, we can deduce that there are a wide variety of variables in the game thus rendering it impossible to truly determine skill off of numerical statistics. Take Gravey4rd for example. Looking at his statistics, we can see periods where he is on streaks of both winning and losing. Of course we can all agree that he is a skilled player, but I would not doubt that during his streaks of winning, he was fortunate in many of those games with good chests as well as not having to deal with an enormous amount of teams. On the other hand, during his streaks of losing he probably had unfortunate occurrences such as bad chests, being chased from corn by armed tributes, or something along the lines of the first scenario listed above.

In the end, the Survival Games are not an accurate way to determine pure skill. In more basic terms, there is no 'best' player. A more accurate way of determining skill, especially in terms of PvP, would be to pit two players you want to compare against each other and give them identical gear. Then, have them fight on the same exact terrain about 100,000 times. But, to be more fair, switch their starting locations at the 50,000 halfway mark. Unfortunately, I don't expect anyone to ever do this as it is quite the task.
---End of on topic response---
Speaking of which, this leads me to believe there is an even more efficient way of determining a better player when comparing two. I believe it is entirely possible to develop both the hardware and software capable of performing millions of accurate simulations of Minecraft fights between two players. The only obstacle would be finding a method of accurately converting the mental and physical actions of each player into numerical values which would then be entered in when creating the AI. I have read/seen some people that have actually done something similar to this. (Deadliest Warrior's proprietary combat simulator)

But.....this is an entirely different topic that I feel will unfortunately never be made available for non-commercial use for a few more years."


As my English and History teachers always say: There are two types of papers I recieve: Regular papers and "Scott Papers"

(My first name is Scott)

I agree with a good portion of this stuff and have nothing to say for much of it, but I will point out little parts that I want to comment on:

In the end, the Survival Games are not an accurate way to determine pure skill. In more basic terms, there is no 'best' player. A more accurate way of determining skill, especially in terms of PvP, would be to pit two players you want to compare against each other and give them identical gear. Then, have them fight on the same exact terrain about 100,000 times. But, to be more fair, switch their starting locations at the 50,000 halfway mark. Unfortunately, I don't expect anyone to ever do this as it is quite the task.

As you said, this would work for determining the best PvP'er, but in terms of SG itself, it wouldn't really work at all.

Take Gravey4rd for example. Looking at his statistics, we can see periods where he is on streaks of both winning and losing. Of course we can all agree that he is a skilled player, but I would not doubt that during his streaks of winning, he was fortunate in many of those games with good chests as well as not having to deal with an enormous amount of teams. On the other hand, during his streaks of losing he probably had unfortunate occurrences such as bad chests, being chased from corn by armed tributes, or something along the lines of the first scenario listed above.

This is entirely possible, but we don't really know for sure what goes on in his games. Maybe you're right, he just gets unlucky, or maybe he's just not as "into" the game at that time of playing, which would explain why several loses in a row happened, as they were all the same session when he just wasn't as...ready, if you know what I mean. (Or it could be like me. I generally take a few games to "warm up" if I hadn't particularly been playing a lot in that week.)


I really hate to spam this topic with insanely long posts that nobody will read, but I can't help myself here. :/

 

[OMGjustin]

Except for egrodo. On roxbot about 5-6 people attack him at once.all the time. He never dies tho. I watched him own 4 people at once with his fishing rod XD

Definitely does not match the criteria, "never dies"


I killed him 4/6 times I ran into him in game. People need to stop worshipping him as an untouchable God.

 

[Lucidictive]

I like how SixZoSeven and G33KE are on every thread about who are the best SG players.
And remember kids, whenever G33KE and SixZo post, your going to get one of the worst stories. ever. I'll give you guys a TL;DR of all of their books.

TL;DR
you can't tell who is the best but guess what i am better then u kid.

 

[Vox]

Definitely does not match the criteria, "never dies"


I killed him 4/6 times I ran into him in game. People need to stop worshipping him as an untouchable God.

He is a fantastic player but he is not a God.

 

[inconceivable81]

Hmm... My friend thinks that him having 22 wins (out of 900 games) makes him better than my other friend with 11 wins (out of 300 games)... Also, that same friend thinks that he's better than me cause I played 1400 more games than him, but 'only' have 310 more wins...

 

[OMGjustin]

I like how SixZoSeven and G33KE are on every thread about who are the best SG players.
And remember kids, whenever G33KE and SixZo post, your going to get one of the worst stories. ever. I'll give you guys a TL;DR of all of their books.

TL;DR
you can't tell who is the best but guess what i am better then u kid.

banned from /r/MCSG

 

[Edog]

If someone has 1000 wins and 8567 games, that would not make them a pro.

Still doesn't mean they're a tad bit skilled.

 

[SixZoSeven]

The chance of not getting at least a weapon and some armor from a chest route is slim. In addition, new maps seem to have an abundance of chests. Take Valleyside for example: It has multiple chests in basically every building. Again, I'm not saying the chance is not there; I'm saying the chance is very slim.



Most players do not chase a player to the ends of the earth unless he is famous, so the chance of this happening is already slim. Not to mention that if a player is specifically targeting you, they will probably not spot you after obtaining the sword. In addition, if you do not get a sword off spawn, you most likely will get some food or armor. If someone is chasing you, you have the distinct advantage of food, so they will run out of sprint first. Also, it does not take long to open a chest and grab a weapon, if present, in the chest. All this requires some skill, but also some chance. The main point is that the chance part is incredibly small.



Though I agree with the hacker part, I disagree with the teams part. It takes a certain amount of skill to know what fight you can/cannot win. It takes even more skill to be able to efficiently avoid the "cannot win" fights until you find more gear. If a team spots you, when you are not ready to fight, it is entirely your fault for not avoiding the team. It takes skill to avoid the team until you have the necessary materials to take them down.

Now, I will not speak about the fishing rod technique because i do not have much information about it or use it. In brief, although MCSG is partly a game of chance, it is mostly skill. The chance part of the "MCSG Pie" makes up a small portion, probably less than 5%. As pointed out, there are variables to effect this, but skilled players will be able to surpass these variables and come out on top.

I hope this post makes some sense.

If someone has a sword and is chasing you it does not matter how much food you have. The second you stop to eat your food they will catch up to you and mutilate you...

Also, how is it a player's fault that a team of three decides to chase him. It simply is chance when it comes to whether or not a team happens to be within your general vicinity.

I don't disagree with much of what you say.
But I still agree with what I said.
You seem to have misunderstood my post. I was not trying to argue that luck could be taken out of the game, just that it could be drastically reduced.

Funny thing is, yesterday, I had an extremely unlucky game, that I still managed to win.
Game starts, and the one good thing of the game happens immediately at corn...nearly full iron from a chest.
I go on my route (it's Teweran 2.) and grab every chest I possibly can...Out of like 10 chests, there wasn't a single weapon. (My chest route on the map is a bit weak, but still, this was a first.)
Now I'm in trouble, no weapon, I'm on the side of the map every player goes to...great.
I pick up a chest, it has an iron ingot in it. Yay! Now I can make an iron sword!
But there's no crafting table anywhere near me...
I have to go through two teams of 3, all in about full iron/iron swords, with absolutely nothing.
Whatever...they'll ignore me, right?
*Gets bountied for 1337 points*

Pretty much, I had to go through two teams of two in pretty much everything, who, by the way, when I got anywhere near them, they would forget the enemy team and bullet straight for me. I had six decked out guys chasing after me. It took some pretty fancy running away to get away from them (skill in running away from people is an actual thing.) to be able to craft, and even then, I was still left with 2 teams of 2. (Some people died.) In the end, I was in a water battle against three equally strong people to me, all focusing me down, two with bows and many, many arrows. (A bow was something I lacked.) Yet I still managed to take down these players. (And they were all pretty decent too, as proven by the amount of gear a team of three could have in the first few minutes.)

All of this...is an extremely rare occurrence for me. I never have to deal with what was essentially a team of six, and I also very, very rarely don't get a weapon. (This was the first time I didn't have a weapon in the first 2 minutes of a game since...two months ago.) Yet even still, my practice in running away and losing a large amount of people was able to pull me straight out of the bad situation. Sure, if they were a bit smarter, yes, they could have killed me, very easily...I got "lucky", in that sense. Consider, however, that a large amount of the other events that took place were extremely unlucky as it is.



Full leather/wooden sword = (on average.) ~5 chests. If I can't find 5-8 chests in the first few minutes, I'm either playing on SG3, or I'm failing. The chances of 8 chests not containing a good amount of leather armor and a weapon of some sort is pretty unlikely as it is, but that's not even the extent of a large number of my chest routes...even on maps that I lack a chest route I get more than that before someone attacks me.



Yep. Did I say that part took a lot of skill? No. The thing is, even on maps where I lack a chest route, (which is a lot nowadays.) I still manage to do perfectly fine. I know where players will chase me, where they're likely to go at the beginning, how to lose them...I almost never have a problem with another player in the direction I go, let alone one trying to kill me with a weapon.



Chance does play a role...I wasn't trying to argue that it didn't, just that it could still be lowered to a point where it really hardly felt like it did anymore. All I need is full leather and a wooden sword, like I said, which I get at least that in almost all of my games, (usually far more: Half gold, half chain is about as low as I get in the average game from the chests I pick up alone.) and then from there...all I need to do is kill a few players for the rest of my gear, which proves to work quite well and relies mainly on the skill of my fighting, with the slight chance part coming from gear on my route.



No, I can't prevent that. At all. The last time it happened to me to the point of me dying? A little while ago. I get plenty of people who try, but either they are too far behind because I wasn't at corn long enough, (I don't stick in corn at all. I click a chest and try for one or two items, get out and sprint as quickly as possible.) or I manage to lose them. Sure, it hindered my progress in grabbing my route, but I still manage to live a good amount of times this happens...which is plenty. (Happens to me a lot on SG4, because sometimes the first chest on my route was taken by someone who skipped corn. They usually chase me for quite a while when this happens, but I've developed an easy way to shake them off...or anybody off on that map in general. Still a pain, but doesn't stop me from doing well in the game at all. Lowers chances? Sure, slim chance I live? No...)

I also want you to look at what I said a bit closer. You did notice that I mentioned chances...but you seemed to have completely missed the fact that that was what my post was about: How chances could be lowered. Nowhere in that post did I say that they could be negated and the game is pure skill: Chances play a fair role in it, but your job, as a good player, is to lower these chances as much as you possibly can. That's also why I mentioned the lag and stuff: There are some chance things that you simply cannot prevent, like derpy internet providers or server issues. Everyone has to deal with these, and it's a shame they can't just go away. That's something you just have to suck it up and forget about it. The lag making you lose doesn't change how good of a player you are in any way, all it does is effect the numbers your stats are showing...which don't mean anything anyway, and I never said they did.



This is all true. However, dealing with teams/hackers or knowing how to avoid them is something you learn to do that changes these percentages to your gain. They still exist, the percentages, and the team/hacker in the game do still make the chances of winning lower than they would have been, but turning a 10% chance increase in losing to a 1% chance increase in losing is a big deal. (That's a bit exaggerated, it's an example.)

As well, having the necessary items also comes from killing other players who may have owned said items. I have many times come across a strong player/team/hackers just to leave them alone until I had things like these secondary items. Eventually, I come across a player who I can fight easily, who may own these items, or even just a lucky unlooted chest, but this is more unlikely at the likely point in the game this will take place. Occasionally, I will have one of those times where I have to fight a team/hacker with the lack of something like one of these weapons, however this isn't all that likely, and I do not require the item to win in a lot of cases.



The miss I was referring to with my miss with a fishing rod was about a time where I was 100% sure it would hit and I acted upon it as if it did, causing me to misposition myself and take many hits, in the case of fighting a team, would cause me to get ping-ponged beyond my control. I'm talking about a time where it clear is moving towards them, a split second from hitting, going to hit right in the chest, and you preemptively charge forward to try to act upon the successful hit. This is a cause of a lag spike on my end or their end, where they appear in a different place than they actually are in. I consider this a fail because it's my fault I acted upon it too early and put myself in a bad position, or otherwise that I didn't pick up on the lag that could effect the fight. Upon a normal miss, I wouldn't have acted at all and instead ran off for another attempt, which would have cost me nothing. You're right, it's partly up to chance if it hits: However, it costs me nothing when it misses unless I was sure it was going to hit in the first place, which was a fail on my part.

Look above for internet things.





I acknowledge that, and sadly, lag is just that bad for people and can't really be fixed. However, for a good portion of us, I'm talking about that tiny amount of lag more than you get in comparison to your opponent that makes it easier for the to land the extra hit on knockback or first hit in general. I'm not talking about the kind of lag you would get to another regions server. (Like someone in the US playing on EU.)



I agree with a good portion of this stuff and have nothing to say for much of it, but I will point out little parts that I want to comment on:



As you said, this would work for determining the best PvP'er, but in terms of SG itself, it wouldn't really work at all.



This is entirely possible, but we don't really know for sure what goes on in his games. Maybe you're right, he just gets unlucky, or maybe he's just not as "into" the game at that time of playing, which would explain why several loses in a row happened, as they were all the same session when he just wasn't as...ready, if you know what I mean. (Or it could be like me. I generally take a few games to "warm up" if I hadn't particularly been playing a lot in that week.)


I really hate to spam this topic with insanely long posts that nobody will read, but I can't help myself here. :/

We both know I am well aware of your competent and working knowledge of the Survival Games...
I was merely using your post to enlighten those who are less knowledgeable about said topic.
You don't have to prove to me that you know these things.

---Moving on to people who are talking about someone who is a 'god' i.e Egrodo---

I don't know of a more efficient way to convey this information to everyone, but let me start by saying this:

I have beaten Egrodo. Egrodo has beaten me.
I have beaten G33ke. G33ke has beaten me.
I have beaten Blamph. Blamph has beaten me.
I have beaten Zeejayy/Rivalize, Zeejayy/Rivalize has beaten me.
and...the SAME goes for everyone else! We have all died to great players as well as we have all beaten them at some point!

In my opinion, there are 'bad, average, good, and great' there is simply no best player.