"Pro" SG Players

[_zeX99_]

Reducing spam. -zex

Brb getting popcorns.

 

[RC_4777]

Snipped

A lot of my thoughts. There gets to be a point in most games where you can eliminate a lot of luck with skill: skill eliminates your reliance on luck. And about the mistakes, I see exactly where you are coming from. I play the Pokemon TCG (non competitively, but I follow competitive play) and this is how the best players tend to think. Going into a tournament a lot of high class players go with a goal of making no mistakes. Of course, luck is a bit more impacting in a card game but it can be reduced with deck-building skill.

 

[Bloodlights]

Amen. There is not "Pro" or non-pro. I used to have an annoying friend who used to rant about how 'Pro' he was whenever he passed me in wins. (Even though he sucked.)

 

[Matt_The Dreamer]

Post is mildly rushed

If this is rushed I would like to see a post where you take your time

 

[SixZoSeven]

Pretty much my thoughts on this.

Believe it or not, guys, some of those things you thought couldn't be controlled, can be. All I need from chests on my route is full leather/wooden sword to win the rest of the game through PvP reliably well. It's hard for my route to fail me...All I need to avoid getting killed off of corn is just not to stay there too long. Take one and done. I can't remember the last time I was killed in the first minute or two of the game...And yes, I do get chased off corn due to high rank, plenty of times...but I almost never die to it. Again, I can't remember the last time someone punched me to death.

Sure, there are some deaths that are uncontrollable: Sometimes, there was nothing you could have done to stop yourself from getting killed off corn. However, the way in which someone is "skilled" isn't to prevent it, since that's impossible, but to lower the chances of it happening to as low as possible.

Even hackers and large teams can be avoided or dealt with if you know how. A forcefielders weakness, as I'm sure we are all aware, is to stay out of his reach: That's why I use the fishing rod technique. It's a reliable way to hit people more times than they hit you. Teams, all it really takes is to focus one down, and with the fishing rod, it's easier than ever...

This is why I invented (Okay, popularized, for those of you who seem to think otherwise.) the fishing rod trick. It's a brilliant way to take the luck out of a melee fight...once you're good enough, anyway. Normally, a melee fight is partly determined by when you swing the sword, meaning that if you swing just as you get to the opponent, you'll likely hit them on their way back, and they won't back at you. However, the fishing rod allows for melee without the opponent being able to reach you in the first place, as well as manipulating the opponent to get the free hit on knockback without perfect timing or luck. It's also a great way to avoid the effects of minimal lag on fights. (If there is too much lag, though, then it can't be helped. You can't hit someone with the rod if you're lagging that badly.)

Many of the fights I lose are due to a fail: In other words, I don't switch to an item soon enough, I don't use my fishing rod to knock the person back and block instead, slowing me down, missing with the fishing rod when I expected it to hit, effecting how I planned on attacking the opponent, etc...Technically, you could call this bad luck, but to be honest, if I was good enough, I would never make these mistakes in the first place. (Unless lag took place, etc.) It is entirely possible to almost completely negate the luck factor in any fight, or even a good portion of the game, as long as you don't have lag or something along those lines. Lag is the only luck factor you cannot minimize the likelihood of in a game through your actions.

Almost all my deaths these days are not a factor of bad luck: A very large portion of them are me failing in a fight I could have won. If I mastered the PvP of a fishing rod, I would technically win pretty much all my games...there's a very small portion that were just bad luck. (Well, this isn't counting games where I time out or have to leave for moderation duties, etc. These aside, though.)

Restating a bit of what I've already said:

The fishing rod technique is designed to remove the factors of luck and lag.
I'm well aware of their effects on the average melee fight. Lag can cause a player to not be able to hit the other properly, and the luck is sometimes getting the extra hit on knockback, which is caused by when you start attacking the opponent as you get in range, which is so precise you couldn't possibly master it.

The fishing rod fixes this. By pushing the opponent back, you are able to get a hit, if precise enough, without even a chance of getting hit back yourself. It also allows for manipulation to be able to increase the likelihood of the extra hit mentioned earlier that normally requires oddly specific timing. Throwing off the opponent is always nice, too, but it varies from person to person.

To be perfectly honest, there are only a select number of people who can consistently beat me in a fight, and often times, both me winning and them winning has to do with who made the first mistake. For the truly "elite" players, the fight is pretty much who slips up first. This may seem like luck, but to be honest, it's not. It's simply a lack of mastery on a certain skill. With enough practice, it's entirely possible to never make a mistake. I don't mean to sound egotistical here, but I've yet to see a single person beat me consistently without a strategy that's nearly identical to mine, maybe with slight modifications, so until one is found, or unless there is one that I'm not aware of, it will be the strategy that, once mastered, you won't die. (Except maybe to hackers/large teams. You wouldn't be prepared for hackers, and large teams is a different story entirely.)

Post is mildly rushed: Bit of a busy day here.

You state "All I need from chests on my route is full leather/wooden sword to win the rest of the game"

Be that as it may, might I ask you what happens when you don't end up getting said items? As Gumby stated to a degree, MCSG is indeed a game based off of both skill AND chance. Taking into consideration how many times you have gone down each of your own personal chest routes, the act of doing so becomes extremely autonomous and eventually is done out of habit with very little thinking required which in turn translates to the whole process taking very little skill. There is absolutely no guarantee that you will get such gear before encountering an unpredictable outside entity/problem such as a team who intercepts you that ultimately leads to your death. Imagine you are going through your chest route and at the end of it, you find yourself with only some leather garments and no weapon. The chances of you surviving have a negative net change. On the other hand, if you were to be fortunate enough to find yourself with a mixture of chain/iron armor and a formidable weapon, the chances of you surviving take a positive net change. If there is one thing I am completely sure about, it is the fact that you can not control what spawns in the chests you get. Such an uncontrollable variable leads us to conclude that chance plays a formidable role relative to skill in MCSG.

"I can't remember the last time I was killed in the first minute or two of the game...And yes, I do get chased off corn due to high rank, plenty of times...but I almost never die to it."

What happens when the pursuing tribute managed to snatch a sword from corn? The chances of you surviving such an unfortunate happening is slim to none assuming the player chases you until death. This is another thing that you simply can not control. Another quote pertaining to this specific matter: "However, the way in which someone is "skilled" isn't to prevent it, since that's impossible, but to lower the chances of it happening to as low as possible." You talk about how one is to use their skill to ensure that they lower the chances as much as possible. Like I just stated, you simply can not control whether or not someone with a stone sword will instantly go for you and kill you.

"Even hackers and large teams can be avoided or dealt with if you know how. A forcefielder's weakness, as I'm sure we are all aware, is to stay out of his reach: That's why I use the fishing rod technique. It's a reliable way to hit people more times than they hit you. Teams, all it really takes is to focus one down, and with the fishing rod, it's easier than ever..."

Hackers and large teams can not be avoided because you can not control whether or not they are in your game. In the event there is a hacker in your game, the chances of you winning go down. If there is not, it goes up. The same goes for teams. As for the two being 'dealt' with, this does indeed rely on one's skill. Alongside that, however, it still more importantly relies on chance. If you have tools such as flint n' steel, a bow with arrows, or any other useful items, the chances of you winning against a team are substantially increased, as one would expect. Likewise, if you do not have the necessary items to take down a team, your chances of taking a team down are greatly decreased. And, as we all now know, the gear you have is a variable based on chance in accordance to your fortune with chests.

"Many of the fights I lose are due to a fail: In other words, I don't switch to an item soon enough, I don't use my fishing rod to knock the person back and block instead, slowing me down, missing with the fishing rod when I expected it to hit, effecting how I planned on attacking the opponent, etc...Technically, you could call this bad luck, but to be honest, if I was good enough, I would never make these mistakes in the first place. (Unless lag took place, etc.) It is entirely possible to almost completely negate the luck factor in any fight, or even a good portion of the game, as long as you don't have lag or something along those lines. Lag is the only luck factor you cannot minimize the likelihood of in a game through your actions."

You mention things like missing with your fishing rod. This stated, you must ask yourself this: Are my misses due to my inadequate skill or are they due to the fact that I can not directly control the actions of my enemy and it is mostly chance in regards to whether or not they move the way I predicted them to move. You also go on to state how it is entirely possible to almost completely negate the luck chance in a fight as long as you do not have lag. The thing is, every single person in an MCSG server is being affected by lag. And, as we all know, the more noticeable effects are usually negative ones. But, it is unfair to say this is the case for everything as there are indeed many people who have a such an ample connection to the server that any negative lag is nearly 100% negligible. Alongside this, we can all agree that the amount of lag you are having on a particular day is not within your control due to the fact that there are varying occurrences such as server load and how well your internet service provider is doing that particular day.

"The fishing rod technique is designed to remove the factors of luck and lag."

Perhaps in your eyes this may be true but in reality it is not. A major reason for this is because the effectiveness of a fishing rod is directly reliant on ones lag. If you are experiencing negative lag, using the fishing rod effectively is, in many cases, simply not possible. For example, on servers where I lag to a noticeable extent, it takes a much longer time to deploy the fishing rod. On a server where I do not get noticeable lag, I can do so much quicker. No harm intended, I am truly baffled at your statement as it contradicts your original intent to convey the idea that the fishing rod is a fix for lag.

"If I mastered the PvP of a fishing rod, I would technically win pretty much all my games"

No.
For more info on why the truth is 'no', please refer to the text that can be found directly above.

Although frowned upon by some, for the third time I must pull out my response on threads similar to this one.
"It is impossible to determine pure skill off of a game like this.

Let me explain:
The Survival Games is a game of both skill and chance. Although it is not hard to come upon a general consensus on who is 'good' and 'bad', it is hard to pinpoint the best player(s). For example, let us say I am playing a game of Survival Games. I have full leather armor and a wooden sword. As for food, I only have uncooked porkchops. I end up running into a team of four people that all have higher tier gear... (chain/iron - stone/iron/diamond wep - flint n' steel - bow & arrow(s)) Chances are, I am going to die given that my opposition has an IQ that allows them to operate and function as your average human being. (You have to think about it, if they have gear as good as that, they must be somewhat decent at the game) On the other hand, I might be the one in full iron+diamond sword and I am faced with a team of four that have a few leather items and wooden axes.

Based off of these hypothetical but completely possible scenarios, we can deduce that there are a wide variety of variables in the game thus rendering it impossible to truly determine skill off of numerical statistics. Take Gravey4rd for example. Looking at his statistics, we can see periods where he is on streaks of both winning and losing. Of course we can all agree that he is a skilled player, but I would not doubt that during his streaks of winning, he was fortunate in many of those games with good chests as well as not having to deal with an enormous amount of teams. On the other hand, during his streaks of losing he probably had unfortunate occurrences such as bad chests, being chased from corn by armed tributes, or something along the lines of the first scenario listed above.

In the end, the Survival Games are not an accurate way to determine pure skill. In more basic terms, there is no 'best' player. A more accurate way of determining skill, especially in terms of PvP, would be to pit two players you want to compare against each other and give them identical gear. Then, have them fight on the same exact terrain about 100,000 times. But, to be more fair, switch their starting locations at the 50,000 halfway mark. Unfortunately, I don't expect anyone to ever do this as it is quite the task.
---End of on topic response---
Speaking of which, this leads me to believe there is an even more efficient way of determining a better player when comparing two. I believe it is entirely possible to develop both the hardware and software capable of performing millions of accurate simulations of Minecraft fights between two players. The only obstacle would be finding a method of accurately converting the mental and physical actions of each player into numerical values which would then be entered in when creating the AI. I have read/seen some people that have actually done something similar to this. (Deadliest Warrior's proprietary combat simulator)

But.....this is an entirely different topic that I feel will unfortunately never be made available for non-commercial use for a few more years."


As my English and History teachers always say: There are two types of papers I recieve: Regular papers and "Scott Papers"

(My first name is Scott)

 

[darkai202]

This is up here on my hates about MCSG

- People who go on about how they're amazing and they're a 'pro'. MCSG is about fun, not about bragging how l33t you are.

 

[ShaunDepro]

Unless they de pro.

 

[Nitro_Elite]

This is pretty much the main reason I quit playing competitively. I am not the cocky type but I would say I am decent at PvP, not great but by all means, not bad. I feel there is too much unneeded competition. Yes, competition is good, I like to be competitive but when is there too much competition? I just hate how it has come to something where if I am off, or laggy like I tend to be, and I lose a fight that person automatically assumes they are better than I am, which is purely opinion based but Is something I greatly disagree with.

 

[fatmannumbah8]

S s s s s s s sooo you're trying to tell me that I'm not pro. *cries in a corner*

 

[Aido_m1]

Man I stick out like a sore thumb in this topic :L

But back on topic. I agree that luck is a MAJOR factor in MCSG. If you were given the same chests on every map at least half of the people playing would all head on one chest route as, it is the best one. But we play with randomized chests, so if you are having bad luck then you will lack in decent gear.

 

[sionghwee]

The term "pro" can be thrown around easily. In a way, I don't really mind that it is. Hypothetically, if I join a lobby and say "Woo, I got my 68th win. I'm so pro". There aren't many people out there that really care. Most people would just disregard the message completely.

I do agree with you on how "good" players are equal and the part about how there are too many variables. I think you can be considered good at SG when you don't fear a player that you've seen is better than you (that's how I see it). For example, I play AS servers. Back when Elisha was around, I use to stand absolutely no chance. I'd get a single hit before he'd destroy me. Now (3-4 Months before Elisha quit) I feel that though I may not win most of the time, I feel as if I don't fear facing him especially. If you never fear a fight. I think that you will generally perform better. A player can have 600 wins yet if he fears a fight with a player of 400. How can the player be considered good?

*cough* *cough* 600 wins is considered "good" as the person has been playing longer *cough**cough*

 

[SkeletonBoss]

If someone has 1000 wins and 8567 games, that would not make them a pro.