Our Minecraft servers are offline but we will keep this forum online for any community communication. Site permissions for posting could change at a later date but will remain online.
You are a Christian Atheist, just like me. I also believe in Jesus, but not God. It just seems unreal to me that God exists.
When I was younger I would always be afraid of going to sleep, because I thought I would wake up in hell, for the reason being that I don't believe in God. I tried to force myself to believe in God, but I just couldn't.
I could say I am the same, I believe there was a man who brought miracles with his whos name was Jesus, but I find it really hard to believe that there is something called god, I've tried hard as well.
Okay, I guess I'll go into a bit further detail in my response:
I grew up in a pretty Catholic family. While we didn't go to church very much willingly, I had to go to church every Sunday because I attended Catechism after school. My grandparents and older relatives are very religious as well. When I was younger, I never really questioned the belief of God, because everyone in my environment believed this being existed, I never doubted that God and Jesus existed. It was more of a fact than a belief at the time. Nobody would ever question God, or they would get in pretty big trouble.
As I grew older, I slowly began to question things in the Bible (and become more educated with scientific phenomena), and I also began questioning whether I actually believed in the figures and teachings in this religion. And I'm actually still undecided today, but I am probably leaning more towards Atheism. People say they need religion because it helps them through hard times, but I personally never used it to get through those times. I didn't helplessly pray and hope that some majestic spiritual being would make it sooo much better for me. I got off my lazy butt and confronted it myself.
The fact that some people believe that some....thing living who the heck knows where (Heaven is) is responsible for everything today sort of boggles my mind. I understand having a "belief" gives you something to lean back on in times of peril and sadness, but I'd rather not have to resort to some actually probably fake belief and live life more realistically. And while scientific theories like Evolution, Natural Selection and the Big Bang are just theories, they're much more realistic to think about because they consider real phenomena in our world and not something fake.
In the end, I am not sure about my religious standpoint, but I usually don't think about it very much because my family isn't the most open when it comes to anything not Christian.
To begin, I am going to post here, and I am reserving this post because you should expect to see a massive (and I mean massive) wall of text here soon. I am very well versed and scholarly in this topic, and all religions out there, but in this post, I shall only be posting about my faith.
But in the mean time, I appreciate the moderators who allowed this thread to exist under circumstances that are under moderation. Id be more than interested to see how far this thread can go without hate if at all possible, as that would be a substantial accomplishment for the internet.
-------
Alright queue massive wall of text.
Edit: I decided to slot em in spoilers to not completely spam your screens...
Why God exists.
People so very much wonder Does God exist and why is religion relevant? C. S. Lewis once remarked that God is not the sort of thing one can be moderately interested in. After all, if God does not exist, there's no reason to be interested in God at all. On the other hand, if God does exist, then this is of paramount interest, and our ultimate concern ought to be how to be properly related to this being upon whom we depend moment by moment for our very existence. So people who shrug their shoulders and say, "Does God exist? What difference does it make?" merely show that they haven't yet thought very deeply about this problem. Even atheist philosophers like Sartre and Camus—who have thought very seriously about this problem—admit that the existence of God makes a tremendous difference for man.
Im going to start with why the existence of God/Religion matters to begin with, and proceed into my evidences for why I believe what I believe.
1. If God does not exist, life is ultimately meaningless. If your life is doomed to end in death, then ultimately it does not matter how you live. In the end it makes no ultimate difference whether you existed or not. Sure, your life might have a relative significance in that you influenced others or affected the course of history. But ultimately mankind is doomed to perish in the heat death of the universe. Ultimately it makes no difference who you are or what you do. Your life is inconsequential. Thus, the contributions of the scientist to the advance of human knowledge, the research of the doctor to alleviate pain and suffering, the efforts of the diplomat to secure peace in the world, the sacrifices of good people everywhere to better the lot of the human race—ultimately all these come to nothing. Thus, without an infinite personal God of any sort, life is meaningless.
2. If God does not exist, then we must ultimately live without hope. If there is no God, then there is ultimately no hope for deliverance from the shortcomings of our finite existence. For example, there is no hope for deliverance from evil. Although many people ask how God could create a world involving so much evil, by far most of the suffering in the world is due to man's own inhumanity to man. The horror of two world wars during the last century effectively destroyed the 19th century's naive optimism about human progress. If God does not exist, then we are locked without hope in a world filled with gratuitous and unredeemed suffering, and there is no hope for deliverance from evil. Or again, if there is no God, there is no hope of deliverance from aging, disease, and death. Although it may be hard for you as students reading a post on our forums to contemplate, the sober fact is that unless you die young, someday you—you yourself—will be an old man or an old woman, fighting a losing battle with aging, struggling against the inevitable advance of deterioration, disease, perhaps senility. And finally and inevitably you will die. There is no afterlife beyond the grave.
Now admittedly none of this shows that God exists. But it does show that it makes a tremendous difference whether God exists. Therefore, even if the evidence for and against the existence of God were absolutely equal, the rational thing to do, I think, is to believe in Him. That is to say, it seems to me positively irrational when the evidence is equal to prefer death, futility, and despair over hope, meaningfulness and happiness.
The following have had countless libraries written on them, and thus, I cannot physically fully explain them in this post and am likely butchering them beyond imaginability. Please research these yourself as I have to have a proper understanding as I'm incapable of the most proper of explanations.
Proof #1
To the credit for this "Ontological argument" goes to St. Anselm and not myself, nor my own reasoning, but it is presented as follows. It is the most widely debated topic amongst scholars, thus, please dont debate this here.
In the hearts and minds of every man across the world, all cultures and all peoples have had the ideas of "god" in the deepest roots of their theology. Cultures that have had no relation or contact with each other. Best example being the native americans - they developed with no external influence of "white man" and still had an ideology of God in their culture. The concept of God is existent in the hearts and minds of every man. The logic then continues that every concept we have in our minds relies on our senses and has an external influence on the real world outside of our minds. Everything we have, or have ever thought of has roots in the real world. Things like unicorns (horses with horns/wings), everything we've ever imagined as a people has come down to things that exist, or have once existed, or are a combination of such. However, a god that is infinite, omnipresent, all knowing and all powerful is not seen anywhere in reality with the exception of our minds. We have no external concept of infinity, omnipresence, etc. Thus, the fact that we still know him in the briefest concept in our minds points towards the existence of a god which contains these qualities as none other is existent. The only thing we have to point to is a god who contains these qualities as we have the idealisms for them previously in our minds.
Proof #2
The second and most logical argument comes from St Thomas aquainas as the "Cosmological Argument". In its rawest form to be put into one sentence "Out of something, something." So, let me explain that, the simplest things we have, a computer, rocks, your wrist watch, they didn't just appear out of nothing. They had an original creator which had intelligence enough to design, and bring it into being. If something were to "appear" out of nowhere, it wouldn't make sense. Everything with existence needs a point in which it was created. You were created by your parents, and their parents before them, etc. In the same logic, the universe must have been created. This can in fact co-exist with the big bang theory as it states that from a single particle expanded to the point where everything we have today is made. However, that particle had to have a point in which it began. This can only point to a an ever existing creator which set the entire thing in motion, be that the big bang, evolution or otherwise. "Out of something, something".
Proof #3
Finally the most common, The Telleological argument again by St Thomas Aquinas, out of the Summa Theologica Simply put, inanimate things cannot have progress without a driving intelligent force behind them. Like an arrow shot by an archer, the arrow could not proceed to its destination without being first shot by someone with intelligence. The entire universe is in motion and being driven to a point, thus must have an original intelligent being. While this is the simplest of all, its the most common, and most up to interpretation.
Since all three of these work out and are undeniable, I find them fit that they point to the God of the christians whom fits all of the requirements, specifications, and thus of the sort. To decipher between the ChristoJudiac religions (Jewish, Christian, Islam) would take an entire other post which ill not go into for the sake of time, and not confusing people. Necessity to say, Im a christian which holds to the very specific beliefs in biblical truths, however, not to one specific faction of christianity as any of them in my opinion can be biblically correct, and some are not. That only takes review, and faith. Im not usually out and up front with what I believe as the internet is usually not the place for such, and I don't force it down anyones throats for obvious reasons. Everyone makes mistakes, and the thought of a God is how I can find rest for my own fears, wrong doings, and self hatred.
If you've managed to read this far, thank you for hearing me out, I know it was a doozy. I hope I at least got some of you to think about something, and again, thanks for sticking with me.
To begin, I am going to post here, and I am reserving this post because you should expect to see a massive (and I mean massive) wall of text here soon. I am very well versed and scholarly in this topic, and all religions out there, but in this post, I shall only be posting about my faith.
But in the mean time, I appreciate the moderators who allowed this thread to exist under circumstances that are under moderation. Id be more than interested to see how far this thread can go without hate if at all possible, as that would be a substantial accomplishment for the internet.
-------
Alright queue massive wall of text.
Edit: I decided to slot em in spoilers to not completely spam your screens...
Why God exists.
People so very much wonder Does God exist and why is religion relevant? C. S. Lewis once remarked that God is not the sort of thing one can be moderately interested in. After all, if God does not exist, there's no reason to be interested in God at all. On the other hand, if God does exist, then this is of paramount interest, and our ultimate concern ought to be how to be properly related to this being upon whom we depend moment by moment for our very existence. So people who shrug their shoulders and say, "Does God exist? What difference does it make?" merely show that they haven't yet thought very deeply about this problem. Even atheist philosophers like Sartre and Camus—who have thought very seriously about this problem—admit that the existence of God makes a tremendous difference for man.
Im going to start with why the existence of God/Religion matters to begin with, and proceed into my evidences for why I believe what I believe.
1. If God does not exist, life is ultimately meaningless. If your life is doomed to end in death, then ultimately it does not matter how you live. In the end it makes no ultimate difference whether you existed or not. Sure, your life might have a relative significance in that you influenced others or affected the course of history. But ultimately mankind is doomed to perish in the heat death of the universe. Ultimately it makes no difference who you are or what you do. Your life is inconsequential. Thus, the contributions of the scientist to the advance of human knowledge, the research of the doctor to alleviate pain and suffering, the efforts of the diplomat to secure peace in the world, the sacrifices of good people everywhere to better the lot of the human race—ultimately all these come to nothing. Thus, without an infinite personal God of any sort, life is meaningless.
2. If God does not exist, then we must ultimately live without hope. If there is no God, then there is ultimately no hope for deliverance from the shortcomings of our finite existence. For example, there is no hope for deliverance from evil. Although many people ask how God could create a world involving so much evil, by far most of the suffering in the world is due to man's own inhumanity to man. The horror of two world wars during the last century effectively destroyed the 19th century's naive optimism about human progress. If God does not exist, then we are locked without hope in a world filled with gratuitous and unredeemed suffering, and there is no hope for deliverance from evil. Or again, if there is no God, there is no hope of deliverance from aging, disease, and death. Although it may be hard for you as students reading a post on our forums to contemplate, the sober fact is that unless you die young, someday you—you yourself—will be an old man or an old woman, fighting a losing battle with aging, struggling against the inevitable advance of deterioration, disease, perhaps senility. And finally and inevitably you will die. There is no afterlife beyond the grave.
Now admittedly none of this shows that God exists. But it does show that it makes a tremendous difference whether God exists. Therefore, even if the evidence for and against the existence of God were absolutely equal, the rational thing to do, I think, is to believe in Him. That is to say, it seems to me positively irrational when the evidence is equal to prefer death, futility, and despair over hope, meaningfulness and happiness.
The following have had countless libraries written on them, and thus, I cannot physically fully explain them in this post and am likely butchering them beyond imaginability. Please research these yourself as I have to have a proper understanding as I'm incapable of the most proper of explanations.
Proof #1
To the credit for this "Ontological argument" goes to St. Anselm and not myself, nor my own reasoning, but it is presented as follows. It is the most widely debated topic amongst scholars, thus, please dont debate this here.
In the hearts and minds of every man across the world, all cultures and all peoples have had the ideas of "god" in the deepest roots of their theology. Cultures that have had no relation or contact with each other. Best example being the native americans - they developed with no external influence of "white man" and still had an ideology of God in their culture. The concept of God is existent in the hearts and minds of every man. The logic then continues that every concept we have in our minds relies on our senses and has an external influence on the real world outside of our minds. Everything we have, or have ever thought of has roots in the real world. Things like unicorns (horses with horns/wings), everything we've ever imagined as a people has come down to things that exist, or have once existed, or are a combination of such. However, a god that is infinite, omnipresent, all knowing and all powerful is not seen anywhere in reality with the exception of our minds. We have no external concept of infinity, omnipresence, etc. Thus, the fact that we still know him in the briefest concept in our minds points towards the existence of a god which contains these qualities as none other is existent. The only thing we have to point to is a god who contains these qualities as we have the idealisms for them previously in our minds.
Proof #2
The second and most logical argument comes from St Thomas aquainas as the "Cosmological Argument". In its rawest form to be put into one sentence "Out of something, something." So, let me explain that, the simplest things we have, a computer, rocks, your wrist watch, they didn't just appear out of nothing. They had an original creator which had intelligence enough to design, and bring it into being. If something were to "appear" out of nowhere, it wouldn't make sense. Everything with existence needs a point in which it was created. You were created by your parents, and their parents before them, etc. In the same logic, the universe must have been created. This can in fact co-exist with the big bang theory as it states that from a single particle expanded to the point where everything we have today is made. However, that particle had to have a point in which it began. This can only point to a an ever existing creator which set the entire thing in motion, be that the big bang, evolution or otherwise. "Out of something, something".
Proof #3
Finally the most common, The Telleological argument again by St Thomas Aquinas, out of the Summa Theologica Simply put, inanimate things cannot have progress without a driving intelligent force behind them. Like an arrow shot by an archer, the arrow could not proceed to its destination without being first shot by someone with intelligence. The entire universe is in motion and being driven to a point, thus must have an original intelligent being. While this is the simplest of all, its the most common, and most up to interpretation.
Since all three of these work out and are undeniable, I find them fit that they point to the God of the christians whom fits all of the requirements, specifications, and thus of the sort. To decipher between the ChristoJudiac religions (Jewish, Christian, Islam) would take an entire other post which ill not go into for the sake of time, and not confusing people. Necessity to say, Im a christian which holds to the very specific beliefs in biblical truths, however, not to one specific faction of christianity as any of them in my opinion can be biblically correct, and some are not. That only takes review, and faith. Im not usually out and up front with what I believe as the internet is usually not the place for such, and I don't force it down anyones throats for obvious reasons. Everyone makes mistakes, and the thought of a God is how I can find rest for my own fears, wrong doings, and self hatred.
If you've managed to read this far, thank you for hearing me out, I know it was a doozy. I hope I at least got some of you to think about something, and again, thanks for sticking with me.
To begin, I am going to post here, and I am reserving this post because you should expect to see a massive (and I mean massive) wall of text here soon. I am very well versed and scholarly in this topic, and all religions out there, but in this post, I shall only be posting about my faith.
But in the mean time, I appreciate the moderators who allowed this thread to exist under circumstances that are under moderation. Id be more than interested to see how far this thread can go without hate if at all possible, as that would be a substantial accomplishment for the internet.
-------
Alright queue massive wall of text.
Edit: I decided to slot em in spoilers to not completely spam your screens...
Why God exists.
People so very much wonder Does God exist and why is religion relevant? C. S. Lewis once remarked that God is not the sort of thing one can be moderately interested in. After all, if God does not exist, there's no reason to be interested in God at all. On the other hand, if God does exist, then this is of paramount interest, and our ultimate concern ought to be how to be properly related to this being upon whom we depend moment by moment for our very existence. So people who shrug their shoulders and say, "Does God exist? What difference does it make?" merely show that they haven't yet thought very deeply about this problem. Even atheist philosophers like Sartre and Camus—who have thought very seriously about this problem—admit that the existence of God makes a tremendous difference for man.
Im going to start with why the existence of God/Religion matters to begin with, and proceed into my evidences for why I believe what I believe.
1. If God does not exist, life is ultimately meaningless. If your life is doomed to end in death, then ultimately it does not matter how you live. In the end it makes no ultimate difference whether you existed or not. Sure, your life might have a relative significance in that you influenced others or affected the course of history. But ultimately mankind is doomed to perish in the heat death of the universe. Ultimately it makes no difference who you are or what you do. Your life is inconsequential. Thus, the contributions of the scientist to the advance of human knowledge, the research of the doctor to alleviate pain and suffering, the efforts of the diplomat to secure peace in the world, the sacrifices of good people everywhere to better the lot of the human race—ultimately all these come to nothing. Thus, without an infinite personal God of any sort, life is meaningless.
2. If God does not exist, then we must ultimately live without hope. If there is no God, then there is ultimately no hope for deliverance from the shortcomings of our finite existence. For example, there is no hope for deliverance from evil. Although many people ask how God could create a world involving so much evil, by far most of the suffering in the world is due to man's own inhumanity to man. The horror of two world wars during the last century effectively destroyed the 19th century's naive optimism about human progress. If God does not exist, then we are locked without hope in a world filled with gratuitous and unredeemed suffering, and there is no hope for deliverance from evil. Or again, if there is no God, there is no hope of deliverance from aging, disease, and death. Although it may be hard for you as students reading a post on our forums to contemplate, the sober fact is that unless you die young, someday you—you yourself—will be an old man or an old woman, fighting a losing battle with aging, struggling against the inevitable advance of deterioration, disease, perhaps senility. And finally and inevitably you will die. There is no afterlife beyond the grave.
Now admittedly none of this shows that God exists. But it does show that it makes a tremendous difference whether God exists. Therefore, even if the evidence for and against the existence of God were absolutely equal, the rational thing to do, I think, is to believe in Him. That is to say, it seems to me positively irrational when the evidence is equal to prefer death, futility, and despair over hope, meaningfulness and happiness.
The following have had countless libraries written on them, and thus, I cannot physically fully explain them in this post and am likely butchering them beyond imaginability. Please research these yourself as I have to have a proper understanding as I'm incapable of the most proper of explanations.
Proof #1
To the credit for this "Ontological argument" goes to St. Anselm and not myself, nor my own reasoning, but it is presented as follows. It is the most widely debated topic amongst scholars, thus, please dont debate this here.
In the hearts and minds of every man across the world, all cultures and all peoples have had the ideas of "god" in the deepest roots of their theology. Cultures that have had no relation or contact with each other. Best example being the native americans - they developed with no external influence of "white man" and still had an ideology of God in their culture. The concept of God is existent in the hearts and minds of every man. The logic then continues that every concept we have in our minds relies on our senses and has an external influence on the real world outside of our minds. Everything we have, or have ever thought of has roots in the real world. Things like unicorns (horses with horns/wings), everything we've ever imagined as a people has come down to things that exist, or have once existed, or are a combination of such. However, a god that is infinite, omnipresent, all knowing and all powerful is not seen anywhere in reality with the exception of our minds. We have no external concept of infinity, omnipresence, etc. Thus, the fact that we still know him in the briefest concept in our minds points towards the existence of a god which contains these qualities as none other is existent. The only thing we have to point to is a god who contains these qualities as we have the idealisms for them previously in our minds.
Proof #2
The second and most logical argument comes from St Thomas aquainas as the "Cosmological Argument". In its rawest form to be put into one sentence "Out of something, something." So, let me explain that, the simplest things we have, a computer, rocks, your wrist watch, they didn't just appear out of nothing. They had an original creator which had intelligence enough to design, and bring it into being. If something were to "appear" out of nowhere, it wouldn't make sense. Everything with existence needs a point in which it was created. You were created by your parents, and their parents before them, etc. In the same logic, the universe must have been created. This can in fact co-exist with the big bang theory as it states that from a single particle expanded to the point where everything we have today is made. However, that particle had to have a point in which it began. This can only point to a an ever existing creator which set the entire thing in motion, be that the big bang, evolution or otherwise. "Out of something, something".
Proof #3
Finally the most common, The Telleological argument again by St Thomas Aquinas, out of the Summa Theologica Simply put, inanimate things cannot have progress without a driving intelligent force behind them. Like an arrow shot by an archer, the arrow could not proceed to its destination without being first shot by someone with intelligence. The entire universe is in motion and being driven to a point, thus must have an original intelligent being. While this is the simplest of all, its the most common, and most up to interpretation.
Since all three of these work out and are undeniable, I find them fit that they point to the God of the christians whom fits all of the requirements, specifications, and thus of the sort. To decipher between the ChristoJudiac religions (Jewish, Christian, Islam) would take an entire other post which ill not go into for the sake of time, and not confusing people. Necessity to say, Im a christian which holds to the very specific beliefs in biblical truths, however, not to one specific faction of christianity as any of them in my opinion can be biblically correct, and some are not. That only takes review, and faith. Im not usually out and up front with what I believe as the internet is usually not the place for such, and I don't force it down anyones throats for obvious reasons. Everyone makes mistakes, and the thought of a God is how I can find rest for my own fears, wrong doings, and self hatred.
If you've managed to read this far, thank you for hearing me out, I know it was a doozy. I hope I at least got some of you to think about something, and again, thanks for sticking with me.
To begin, I am going to post here, and I am reserving this post because you should expect to see a massive (and I mean massive) wall of text here soon. I am very well versed and scholarly in this topic, and all religions out there, but in this post, I shall only be posting about my faith.
But in the mean time, I appreciate the moderators who allowed this thread to exist under circumstances that are under moderation. Id be more than interested to see how far this thread can go without hate if at all possible, as that would be a substantial accomplishment for the internet.
-------
Alright queue massive wall of text.
Edit: I decided to slot em in spoilers to not completely spam your screens...
Why God exists.
People so very much wonder Does God exist and why is religion relevant? C. S. Lewis once remarked that God is not the sort of thing one can be moderately interested in. After all, if God does not exist, there's no reason to be interested in God at all. On the other hand, if God does exist, then this is of paramount interest, and our ultimate concern ought to be how to be properly related to this being upon whom we depend moment by moment for our very existence. So people who shrug their shoulders and say, "Does God exist? What difference does it make?" merely show that they haven't yet thought very deeply about this problem. Even atheist philosophers like Sartre and Camus—who have thought very seriously about this problem—admit that the existence of God makes a tremendous difference for man.
Im going to start with why the existence of God/Religion matters to begin with, and proceed into my evidences for why I believe what I believe.
1. If God does not exist, life is ultimately meaningless. If your life is doomed to end in death, then ultimately it does not matter how you live. In the end it makes no ultimate difference whether you existed or not. Sure, your life might have a relative significance in that you influenced others or affected the course of history. But ultimately mankind is doomed to perish in the heat death of the universe. Ultimately it makes no difference who you are or what you do. Your life is inconsequential. Thus, the contributions of the scientist to the advance of human knowledge, the research of the doctor to alleviate pain and suffering, the efforts of the diplomat to secure peace in the world, the sacrifices of good people everywhere to better the lot of the human race—ultimately all these come to nothing. Thus, without an infinite personal God of any sort, life is meaningless.
2. If God does not exist, then we must ultimately live without hope. If there is no God, then there is ultimately no hope for deliverance from the shortcomings of our finite existence. For example, there is no hope for deliverance from evil. Although many people ask how God could create a world involving so much evil, by far most of the suffering in the world is due to man's own inhumanity to man. The horror of two world wars during the last century effectively destroyed the 19th century's naive optimism about human progress. If God does not exist, then we are locked without hope in a world filled with gratuitous and unredeemed suffering, and there is no hope for deliverance from evil. Or again, if there is no God, there is no hope of deliverance from aging, disease, and death. Although it may be hard for you as students reading a post on our forums to contemplate, the sober fact is that unless you die young, someday you—you yourself—will be an old man or an old woman, fighting a losing battle with aging, struggling against the inevitable advance of deterioration, disease, perhaps senility. And finally and inevitably you will die. There is no afterlife beyond the grave.
Now admittedly none of this shows that God exists. But it does show that it makes a tremendous difference whether God exists. Therefore, even if the evidence for and against the existence of God were absolutely equal, the rational thing to do, I think, is to believe in Him. That is to say, it seems to me positively irrational when the evidence is equal to prefer death, futility, and despair over hope, meaningfulness and happiness.
The following have had countless libraries written on them, and thus, I cannot physically fully explain them in this post and am likely butchering them beyond imaginability. Please research these yourself as I have to have a proper understanding as I'm incapable of the most proper of explanations.
Proof #1
To the credit for this "Ontological argument" goes to St. Anselm and not myself, nor my own reasoning, but it is presented as follows. It is the most widely debated topic amongst scholars, thus, please dont debate this here.
In the hearts and minds of every man across the world, all cultures and all peoples have had the ideas of "god" in the deepest roots of their theology. Cultures that have had no relation or contact with each other. Best example being the native americans - they developed with no external influence of "white man" and still had an ideology of God in their culture. The concept of God is existent in the hearts and minds of every man. The logic then continues that every concept we have in our minds relies on our senses and has an external influence on the real world outside of our minds. Everything we have, or have ever thought of has roots in the real world. Things like unicorns (horses with horns/wings), everything we've ever imagined as a people has come down to things that exist, or have once existed, or are a combination of such. However, a god that is infinite, omnipresent, all knowing and all powerful is not seen anywhere in reality with the exception of our minds. We have no external concept of infinity, omnipresence, etc. Thus, the fact that we still know him in the briefest concept in our minds points towards the existence of a god which contains these qualities as none other is existent. The only thing we have to point to is a god who contains these qualities as we have the idealisms for them previously in our minds.
Proof #2
The second and most logical argument comes from St Thomas aquainas as the "Cosmological Argument". In its rawest form to be put into one sentence "Out of something, something." So, let me explain that, the simplest things we have, a computer, rocks, your wrist watch, they didn't just appear out of nothing. They had an original creator which had intelligence enough to design, and bring it into being. If something were to "appear" out of nowhere, it wouldn't make sense. Everything with existence needs a point in which it was created. You were created by your parents, and their parents before them, etc. In the same logic, the universe must have been created. This can in fact co-exist with the big bang theory as it states that from a single particle expanded to the point where everything we have today is made. However, that particle had to have a point in which it began. This can only point to a an ever existing creator which set the entire thing in motion, be that the big bang, evolution or otherwise. "Out of something, something".
Proof #3
Finally the most common, The Telleological argument again by St Thomas Aquinas, out of the Summa Theologica Simply put, inanimate things cannot have progress without a driving intelligent force behind them. Like an arrow shot by an archer, the arrow could not proceed to its destination without being first shot by someone with intelligence. The entire universe is in motion and being driven to a point, thus must have an original intelligent being. While this is the simplest of all, its the most common, and most up to interpretation.
Since all three of these work out and are undeniable, I find them fit that they point to the God of the christians whom fits all of the requirements, specifications, and thus of the sort. To decipher between the ChristoJudiac religions (Jewish, Christian, Islam) would take an entire other post which ill not go into for the sake of time, and not confusing people. Necessity to say, Im a christian which holds to the very specific beliefs in biblical truths, however, not to one specific faction of christianity as any of them in my opinion can be biblically correct, and some are not. That only takes review, and faith. Im not usually out and up front with what I believe as the internet is usually not the place for such, and I don't force it down anyones throats for obvious reasons. Everyone makes mistakes, and the thought of a God is how I can find rest for my own fears, wrong doings, and self hatred.
If you've managed to read this far, thank you for hearing me out, I know it was a doozy. I hope I at least got some of you to think about something, and again, thanks for sticking with me.
Very interesting. Being an agnostic, I have a question regarding proof 2; Instead of an ever existing creator, would an ever existing universe be possible? Or perhaps even more likely, if you don't consider any other proofs?
Very interesting. Being an agnostic, I have a question regarding proof 2; Instead of an ever existing creator, would an ever existing universe be possible? Or perhaps even more likely, if you don't consider any other proofs?
Based on that theory alone, its not impossible, but you have to factor in the advances in the field of science that, what is referred to as the "god particle"; being the particle that induced the big bang, has been traced to have a beginning. As well, due to the state of matter observable, matter decays and comes to an inherent destruction, it is impossible that it could be everlasting as constants in the universe are unchaining with the laws of physics. Again, it would take an intelligent force larger than the universe to change these constants with the intent of creating a decaying universe.
Don't really think there's a need for this thread, but since it's here, I'll share a little bit. Personally, I'm a Christian basically because of detailed and vivid stories from peers, pastors, and my parents that I've heard. For me, it just seems impossible to have a universe without some outstanding power there to create it. That's what I don't understand. That's another one of those things that I've never figured out, and I don't think anyone will ever do so. ugh. time. scary. mysterious. makes me feel all weird inside.
I guess it's time I speak out on this topic anyway.
I was raised in a typical southern Baptist family, so Christianity was basically crammed down my throat. Growing up more and realizing that I don't have to be Christian has really made me start to question my beliefs. I do believe in God, and I do believe in Heaven and Hell, but I choose not to be Christian. As I said, I was raised in a Christian family and I grew up listening to people saying that, "What God says is true," but I simply cannot be a part of such a hypocritical religion. In the bible it tells us that killing is wrong, but at a point in that same book, the God that they worship kills half of humanity, simply because they don't believe in him.
Sexuality has also influenced my decision to be a non-believer. I myself am gay, and before you judge me, have a look in your book and read where it says not to judge others. I recently enrolled in a Christian school, where basically every other line is, "What God says in true," and I just can't believe in such things, but I continue to do the work, simply because I'm open-minded and I'd like to learn more about the religion, before I cast it aside.
To sum it up, I'd say I'm Atheist.
-----
I definitely respect everyone else's religions and views, and I ask that you also respect mine.
First off, I'm Jewish. Actually, I'm Israeli. My parents were raised there, I speak Hebrew, albeit living in California for nearly all my life.
All of my life, I didn't like religion. It bored me, I didn't enjoy going to temple, in the rare times we did in my early life. In seventh grade, my parents finally decided to buck up, and join a reform temple, because they felt that we weren't being exposed to enough Judaism, which was tough for them since they grew up in the Jewish state, where everything is based off religion, practically. There was a period of years, when I didn't see any reason to believe in God, I considered myself an aethiest, but really I was a non-theist, which I didn't realize until Blazerboy | Noah brought up the term earlier on this thread. In eight grade, I joined a teen program at my temple. Where a bunch of 7-12th grades would come every Wednesday night, eat food (REAL JEWS) and take some fun, Judaism oriented electives. There I had a ton of fun, made Jewish friends, and generally felt like a real Jew. There I learned that I really enjoyed singing and praying with my community. I loved being a part of a community of people like me that all shared a common belief, and could say, "Hey, you're Jewish, and I'm Jewish, so I got your back, friend."
In 9th grade, I continued to get more involved in my temple, doing a teaching assistant job for a family program on weekends, and some other stuff. I got to know more awesome Jewish teens, and start to do other teen stuff connected to Judaism. This past summer, I went to a reform Judaism overnight summer camp with about 800 other Jews, from the ages of 8 all the way up to incoming high school seniors. That camp, was the highlight of this summer, and most likely the highlight of my Jewish experience so far. I never felt so at home singing with a community, and praying to this one God that connected us all. I loved being in that Jewish community, and realized that this experience, was because of God, who brought us together as a community to sing together, pray together, and just to simply be together to experience this beautiful religion. I know it sounds super cliche, but I just fell so in love with the communal aspect of Judaism.
Also, the war happening right now between Israel and Hamas has been an important role in my beliefs. WW2 also sparked more Jewish involvement from me, since I'm particularly fascinated by WW2.
Thats all I have to write for right now, based off my short attention span, and also I have to start on homework. Trying to start up this year with a good start. No procrastination for me
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
