The Controversy of Gamma.

[Dusk]

Because I don't want to start a huge debate or flamewar, I am going to put my claims as simply as I can for you three.

I agree on how it does not give you an advantage when it comes to PVP, but what about maps? As I said in my post, increasing gamma can be used to avoid traps, discover hidden chests, and gives an unfair advantage, especially at night. This is what I've been trying to explain, but I guess I haven't given a good example, so I'll give a short but understandable example of how this is unfair:

Player A and Player B join a match and team up. Player A has an increased gamma while Player B is playing a vanilla game. As the game starts and they gather on food, armor, and weapons, they come upon a temple, full of traps and good chests. The two decide to split up. Player A enters a dark room. Because with his increased gamma, he is able to gather secret chests and was able to avoid traps that would send him to the pits of Hell, boiling in lava and fire. Refill comes, and they decide to go back to the very same room. This time, Player B decides to get the loot and goes inside the room. He is having trouble finding chests as all of them are hidden, but doesn't come out as he falls into a pit of lava thanks to a trap he can't see in the very dark room.

This is a perfect example of an unfair advantage. The traps and chests were designed to stop the tributes from getting the loot, and with the unfair advantage playing a good role in this situation, it allows for the first person to get better supplies that would help him win. This is why increasing gamma is not allowed on MCSG.

You guys also talked about OptiFine and how it is similar in a way that it can give an unfair advantage. I know what you mean; I have seen several people claim that the mod should not be allowed. The reason it is allowed is because it does give an advantage to the ones who need it. For some people it is impossible to play Minecraft without OptiFine as they get very low frames, lots of lag, and slow responses. And yes, it is true that you can zoom by holding the Control key. This was a feature built in the mod. Because of this, we use it because it's there. Whether it provides an unfair advantage or not, it's there. Now, increasing gamma is different. It's not like you can just press a key to toggle it, like you can with the zoom. It's there, and it's staying there until you adjust the slider.

The reason I spent 35 minutes typing this up is because I want to show my side, not create a flamewar-argument. Feel free to agree or disagree with my points, but I am sticking with the side I'm on. If you don't follow what I mean, I'll just go ahead and type up another essay about my viewpoints, whether they are right or not.

Either way, increasing gamma is not allowed on MCSG, and what I have typed is the reason why and why I agree. It's the administrators choice whether they want to allow it or not, all we are doing is talking about the topic. It could be allowed, it could not. It all depends on what they think. Because of several interesting and good points made not only by you three, but by several people in this conversation, I feel that they will become involved and share their viewpoints. But for now, it's just going to be the community talking about it. I did not want to get involved, but I decided to so I could clear up some points, before I get counteracted by you three. I'm not offended, but I don't want to be involved in this. I may make a few more points about it, but for the most part, this is going to be my last post on this thread.

-Have a nice day/night

-Spice

 

[Beardy]

I completely respect your opinion, but

This was a feature built in the mod. Because of this, we use it because it's there.

This is exactly what they're getting at. It's built into Minecraft and people use it because it's there. I personally don't think it should be bannable, but I respect what you think. Also, what's the problem with a huge debate? As long as there's no flame, who doesn't love a debate?

 

[HalfSquirrel]

Because I don't want to start a huge debate or flamewar, I am going to put my claims as simply as I can for you three.

I agree on how it does not give you an advantage when it comes to PVP, but what about maps? As I said in my post, increasing gamma can be used to avoid traps, discover hidden chests, and gives an unfair advantage, especially at night. This is what I've been trying to explain, but I guess I haven't given a good example, so I'll give a short but understandable example of how this is unfair:

Player A and Player B join a match and team up. Player A has an increased gamma while Player B is playing a vanilla game. As the game starts and they gather on food, armor, and weapons, they come upon a temple, full of traps and good chests. The two decide to split up. Player A enters a dark room. Because with his increased gamma, he is able to gather secret chests and was able to avoid traps that would send him to the pits of Hell, boiling in lava and fire. Refill comes, and they decide to go back to the very same room. This time, Player B decides to get the loot and goes inside the room. He is having trouble finding chests as all of them are hidden, but doesn't come out as he falls into a pit of lava thanks to a trap he can't see in the very dark room.

This is a perfect example of an unfair advantage. The traps and chests were designed to stop the tributes from getting the loot, and with the unfair advantage playing a good role in this situation, it allows for the first person to get better supplies that would help him win. This is why increasing gamma is not allowed on MCSG.

You guys also talked about OptiFine and how it is similar in a way that it can give an unfair advantage. I know what you mean; I have seen several people claim that the mod should not be allowed. The reason it is allowed is because it does give an advantage to the ones who need it. For some people it is impossible to play Minecraft without OptiFine as they get very low frames, lots of lag, and slow responses. And yes, it is true that you can zoom by holding the Control key. This was a feature built in the mod. Because of this, we use it because it's there. Whether it provides an unfair advantage or not, it's there. Now, increasing gamma is different. It's not like you can just press a key to toggle it, like you can with the zoom. It's there, and it's staying there until you adjust the slider.

The reason I spent 35 minutes typing this up is because I want to show my side, not create a flamewar-argument. Feel free to agree or disagree with my points, but I am sticking with the side I'm on. If you don't follow what I mean, I'll just go ahead and type up another essay about my viewpoints, whether they are right or not.

Either way, increasing gamma is not allowed on MCSG, and what I have typed is the reason why and why I agree. It's the administrators choice whether they want to allow it or not, all we are doing is talking about the topic. It could be allowed, it could not. It all depends on what they think. Because of several interesting and good points made not only by you three, but by several people in this conversation, I feel that they will become involved and share their viewpoints. But for now, it's just going to be the community talking about it. I did not want to get involved, but I decided to so I could clear up some points, before I get counteracted by you three. I'm not offended, but I don't want to be involved in this. I may make a few more points about it, but for the most part, this is going to be my last post on this thread.

-Have a nice day/night

-Spice

The only thing I see you did with this post is go into more detail on a topic we understand. You've essentially given the same points, and no more reason as to why Gamma isn't actually allowed whereas Optifine isn't.

Like I have said, and multiple others, Gamma allows people with a darker screen to see the same things that someone with a brighter screen can see at his normal brightness level. I think it should be allowed. Your argument has said nothing about why Gamma isn't permitted but Optifine is, you have just said why they are both in their current situations separately. They both improve your performance in some way, because people with worse computers will be in worse situations. Gamma will allow them to see more, Optifine allows them to get a better frame rate.

Some shaders mods and texture packs have the same effect as Gamma, to make things brighter, and this is proven by an earlier post of a screenshot darkrai took (I think it was darkrai... ) and his screen is brighter than using a default texture pack.

What if you were to install a mod that allowed you to increase your brightness? Would that not be the exact same thing as Optifine, simply for brightness rather than frames per second? Because apparently it's so much more difficult to change the Gamma yourself (sort of sarcasm), would making it into a mod be any different?

 

[Wickyy]

It's bannable for the same reason many other mods or improvements are bannable. It provides too much of an advantage to one person. There are some areas on maps, and some maps entirely that are supposed to be dark, so dark you can barely see anything. It would be unfair if you could see all the tripwires or pressure plates and the sort.

E. This is only my understanding of the whole issue.

Well its only dark for some people it really depends on there screen for example i have my computer brightness and laptop brightness full yet on my laptop i can't see anything on some maps for example moonbase which is why i h8 playing that map :/ but on my computer its different where i can see other players and can actually play the map like anyother :/

 

[Beardy]

Some shaders mods and texture packs have the same effect as Gamma

*Cough* ThatOneTomahawk *Cough*

 

[Joel/MadDawg]

Here is my opinion on the argument:

I play on a five year old monitor that is ridiculously dark. Because of this, some maps are pretty much unplayable for me (moonbase9, Yellowstone back when it was a map). While on these maps, I can barely see my opponents and because of it lose many fights that I would win on other maps. Not only is this frustrating, it upsets me that I am not allowed to do anything about it. Since my computer isn't good enough to run a nice texturepack that increases brightness, there is no legal way for me to fix this.

I think people are looking at gamma as a way to get an advantage, when really for me it would be a way to even the playing field. It would not give me any benefit over another player, all it would do is make things fair. I think this point was forgotten in the whole argument.

That is my two cents on this.

 

[Math_Magician]

Things that have similar effects as increasing gamma, but are not bannable offenses:
-Having a good monitor
-Playing in a dark room
-Some Shaders packs
-Optifine (Not really brightness increasing, but zoom and etc)
-Having texture packs with very bright colors has almost the same effect as increasing your gamma (Look at The Maple Pack texture pack).
It's probably very hard to get banned for increasing gamma (Unless you are a sillyhead)

 

[reven86]

Because I don't want to start a huge debate or flamewar, I am going to put my claims as simply as I can for you three.

I agree on how it does not give you an advantage when it comes to PVP, but what about maps? As I said in my post, increasing gamma can be used to avoid traps, discover hidden chests, and gives an unfair advantage, especially at night. This is what I've been trying to explain, but I guess I haven't given a good example, so I'll give a short but understandable example of how this is unfair:

Player A and Player B join a match and team up. Player A has an increased gamma while Player B is playing a vanilla game. As the game starts and they gather on food, armor, and weapons, they come upon a temple, full of traps and good chests. The two decide to split up. Player A enters a dark room. Because with his increased gamma, he is able to gather secret chests and was able to avoid traps that would send him to the pits of Hell, boiling in lava and fire. Refill comes, and they decide to go back to the very same room. This time, Player B decides to get the loot and goes inside the room. He is having trouble finding chests as all of them are hidden, but doesn't come out as he falls into a pit of lava thanks to a trap he can't see in the very dark room.

This is a perfect example of an unfair advantage. The traps and chests were designed to stop the tributes from getting the loot, and with the unfair advantage playing a good role in this situation, it allows for the first person to get better supplies that would help him win. This is why increasing gamma is not allowed on MCSG.

You guys also talked about OptiFine and how it is similar in a way that it can give an unfair advantage. I know what you mean; I have seen several people claim that the mod should not be allowed. The reason it is allowed is because it does give an advantage to the ones who need it. For some people it is impossible to play Minecraft without OptiFine as they get very low frames, lots of lag, and slow responses. And yes, it is true that you can zoom by holding the Control key. This was a feature built in the mod. Because of this, we use it because it's there. Whether it provides an unfair advantage or not, it's there. Now, increasing gamma is different. It's not like you can just press a key to toggle it, like you can with the zoom. It's there, and it's staying there until you adjust the slider.

The reason I spent 35 minutes typing this up is because I want to show my side, not create a flamewar-argument. Feel free to agree or disagree with my points, but I am sticking with the side I'm on. If you don't follow what I mean, I'll just go ahead and type up another essay about my viewpoints, whether they are right or not.

Either way, increasing gamma is not allowed on MCSG, and what I have typed is the reason why and why I agree. It's the administrators choice whether they want to allow it or not, all we are doing is talking about the topic. It could be allowed, it could not. It all depends on what they think. Because of several interesting and good points made not only by you three, but by several people in this conversation, I feel that they will become involved and share their viewpoints. But for now, it's just going to be the community talking about it. I did not want to get involved, but I decided to so I could clear up some points, before I get counteracted by you three. I'm not offended, but I don't want to be involved in this. I may make a few more points about it, but for the most part, this is going to be my last post on this thread.

-Have a nice day/night

-Spice

Again, I respect what you are saying old_spice, but the main focus here is what a lot of people are posting after you, the fact that changing your gamma is illegal, but tecture pacts such as shaders, pretty much have it built in, yet those aren't bannable. Also it really depends on your monitor. I have a desktop and a laptop in my apartment. My laptop is about 4 years old.. and my desktop is less than a year old. The difference between the 2 as far as brightness goes.. is unreal. On my desktop, I can see great on moonbase, but on my laptop, I can't even record a hacker because it gets to dark at some spots on the map.

All changing your gamma does is just even things up. It does the same exact thing optifine does, it allows people with horrible computers/internet connections to play a game that would be very difficult to play without it (just as you posted yourself) and changing your gamma does that same exact thing. It helps people who have a hard time seeing on maps such as moonbase, see better.

If anything, its actually more fair than optifine. Simply because you don't even have to download anything. Everyone can do it and it takes little to no time to do it.

 

[Br00k]

Well I probably have the darkest monitor you will ever see any map that is dark is a no no because I can see any thing, I still play them because. Ok so say sg3 corn I can not see anything on it, and that sucks because I like that map :/. But any ways there are so many ways to get around it like said before shaders packs, bright texture packs and just having a very bright monitor. But ehh gamma saying gamma should be allowed is like saying BSM should be allowed for people with bad keyboards or bolder name tags for people with defective eye's.

 

[G33ke]

As I said in my post, increasing gamma can be used to avoid traps, discover hidden chests, and gives an unfair advantage, especially at night.

Or, you know, I could download an extremely bright texture pack that also makes all traps bright red. (People in this thread have gone over how this is allowed already, although I am admittedly a bit skeptical and wouldn't do the same myself.) Or, I could get a monitor/graphics card that allows me to change my gamma to be as high as I wish. Both of these are perfectly legal methods (supposedly) - in fact, downloading a texture pack is just as easy and gives more advantages than messing with your gamma.


And honestly...Optifine zoom is not something I'd consider an advantage, really...I could get the same effect from a spectator viewing them in the distance, having a large monitor, or even just leaning in a bit to my screen (for the most part, it'll be a bit lower quality.) ...but changing your gamma is no better for you. Yeah, you can see traps more easily...but honestly, these days, how often do you think the better players actually fall into traps as it is anyway...? Honestly, I never even go to rooms with traps unless I know it by heart and it has good loot...and those who do have their gamma up, and they can see the traps because of it...how is that much of a big deal? Couldn't I just lean in to my screen or something? ...wait, isn't that an excuse given as to why Optifine zoom is allowed? Heck, optifine allowing me to see armor and weapons of an opponent from a distance is quite useful, but I'd nearly never need the light.


Honestly, now that people mention it, it does seem a bit silly. Although I understand it's an advantage, it's both an advantage that cannot really be caught, and can be pretty much replicated by something that's legal. An attempt to try to catch people who do this will get nowhere, and it seems silly to ban people for doing something that's not even as bad as other legal things...that do the same exact thing.

(Also, I heard in this thread something about names being easier to see with extremely high brightness...and honestly, again, it goes back to Optifine zoom. I cannot tell you how many times I've been able to see and read a name because of it.)


Normally, I'm one to side with the staff in threads like this, but come to think of it, I really can't think of a reason why it's dis-allowed considering how things like optifine zoom is okay. (Although admittedly, asking people to stop using optifine zoom is a fruitless effort, but still.) I'd like for someone to step up with a really good reason yet to be mentioned on why it's dis-allowed, actually.

 

[reven86]

Or, you know, I could download an extremely bright texture pack that also makes all traps bright red. (People in this thread have gone over how this is allowed already, although I am admittedly a bit skeptical and wouldn't do the same myself.) Or, I could get a monitor/graphics card that allows me to change my gamma to be as high as I wish. Both of these are perfectly legal methods (supposedly) - in fact, downloading a texture pack is just as easy and gives more advantages than messing with your gamma.


And honestly...Optifine zoom is not something I'd consider an advantage, really...I could get the same effect from a spectator viewing them in the distance, having a large monitor, or even just leaning in a bit to my screen (for the most part, it'll be a bit lower quality.) ...but changing your gamma is no better for you. Yeah, you can see traps more easily...but honestly, these days, how often do you think the better players actually fall into traps as it is anyway...? Honestly, I never even go to rooms with traps unless I know it by heart and it has good loot...and those who do have their gamma up, and they can see the traps because of it...how is that much of a big deal? Couldn't I just lean in to my screen or something? ...wait, isn't that an excuse given as to why Optifine zoom is allowed? Heck, optifine allowing me to see armor and weapons of an opponent from a distance is quite useful, but I'd nearly never need the light.


Honestly, now that people mention it, it does seem a bit silly. Although I understand it's an advantage, it's both an advantage that cannot really be caught, and can be pretty much replicated by something that's legal. An attempt to try to catch people who do this will get nowhere, and it seems silly to ban people for doing something that's not even as bad as other legal things...that do the same exact thing.

(Also, I heard in this thread something about names being easier to see with extremely high brightness...and honestly, again, it goes back to Optifine zoom. I cannot tell you how many times I've been able to see and read a name because of it.)


Normally, I'm one to side with the staff in threads like this, but come to think of it, I really can't think of a reason why it's dis-allowed considering how things like optifine zoom is okay. (Although admittedly, asking people to stop using optifine zoom is a fruitless effort, but still.) I'd like for someone to step up with a really good reason yet to be mentioned on why it's dis-allowed, actually.

I don't think anyone here disagree's with you . Cept maybe 1 or 2. As you said, there is really no way to prove someone changed their gamma, unless they are just stupid and admit it or w/e.

 

[screacher90]

So to sum it up you can get banned for using gamma but if you use high brightness texture pack its a-ok.
God damn it mcsg with deez rules.