The most important question I'm ever going to ask on this site.

[Dave]

i think that would be a good way to summarize and rap up the thread

 

[Tal_Pal]

Long answer:

I just play MCSG.
If I see a pink or red or purple or dark red or raindow name, I say Hi.
Some mods are nice to me, and the others I have never spoken to.
I play MCSG, and I like it. The mods may or may not be corrupt, but to be honest with you, I love the staff of MCSG for all the hard work they have put into helping the community become (and stay) epic.
So, even if the mods were corrupt, I wouldn't really care.
Their nice to me, I don't see hackers (Much [okay, maybe a bit]), and I enjoy the game.
And that's what MCSG is about.
Enjoying yourself.
Even if you play because you enjoy winning, you play for the feeling you get when you win, or when you have fun times with old and new friends

And as long as the Mods don't ruin my fun, or any other rule-abiding MCSGers (take note hackers), and they keep the hackers away, and new awesome maps are added, I don't care if they are corrupt.




Short answer:


THE MODS ARE THE BEST DON'T EVAR DISAGREE NEVAR EVAR!!

this is my views on how I believe everyone should act.
one of the reason this topic keeps coming up imo is because of false bans. I am NOT saying this the only reason but I would like to point out something. our job is hard and always will be hard. especially with BSM. I have seen many people wrongly accused of BSM. its something that happens. where only human. this is where I believe a lot of the "mods don't do there job" stuff come from. Some just post a ban dispute others rage and post unneeded threads on the forums. I would like to share a quick story.
I had gotten a conversation form someone (not naming names) asking for the evidence of the ban and why they were banned. it was for BSM and he said he never used it and such but me and a few others said otherwise. at this point I would normally expect that person to start asking questions and go off on how he has never used bsm and such but he surprised me that day. He went and said I didn't use bsm but I'll accept the ban, don't worry about it. thanks for helping.
this completely blew me away. If this person can be noble and except his ban regardless of if it was bsm or not, why can't everyone else?
he was able to accept the fact that, in his opinion, even though we made a mistake he accepted the ban and moved on. If your raging at a game like this then perhaps its time for a week away form the game?
anyways thats my 2 cents.

 

[slasherxtreme]

The one problem I see with this method is that, with the constant influx of new users, there will always be plenty of people who don't ask before they act, no matter how much you influence people to. In the same way, there will always be that group of people who refuse to ask before they act, because they do not trust the staff for some reason. (mod banned their friend, one mod did something stupid in front of them and it influence their view of the staff as a whole, etc..) If you don't tell them what happened, and they don't ask, this is what happens - they assume the staff keep things from them, because they never actually went ahead and asked.

If you're going to encourage something like that over just releasing the information in the first place, then there needs to be some drastic changes. To begin with, there needs to be a really, really easy and reliable way of contacting a staff member. Poking them on TS doesn't always get a response right away, forum PM's take time, and I know some staff members don't even respond to those, etc...even just a command in game that sends a message to all staff members with their question, where a mod could respond back with another command, and it would disappear from the view of the rest of the staff. That would be kind of cool, actually. (Although abused - I can see the "omg i was kalled by haker plz help us1234 plz" spam. Although this is just an example.)

And if this were to happen...you would really need it to be obvious that that is the best, and in some cases, only way to get information - just not telling people anything and hoping they ask a question would scare or discourage people more than anything, you would need to actively tell them, over and over, "feel free to ask questions" for everything...and honestly, if it were me, I'd be far too lazy to go ask a staff member a question, waiting for a response, etc...why can't I just know in the first place?


I agree, that you should encourage users to ask questions first if they don't know something, but I also urge that effort be put into giving as much information as possible in the first place. Relying on people asking questions not only creates more work for both parties, (one to ask, the other to read and answer.) but it also causes a number of problems that seem unnecessary, like the reason we're here now. (Also, a more reliable system of staff answering questions that can be monitored by Sr. Staff would be cool.)

Even if there are new users coming in who aren't adapted to this way of finding out information. If enough people on the forums know about it, than they will teach the new users. For example when double posting was finally set as a rule, people who began to double post would usually got large amounts of other community members telling them they shouldn't do it. With this happening nearly every single time, new users who browsed the forums before posting would already know about how frowned upon it is and how to use the edit button. If we encourage members to ask before acting, they will begin to tell others and it will continue. People who decide not to asking to find out about a new topic will be told by forum members, who are trying to keep the forums fun, how to deal with misunderstandings properly.The reason we would rather encourage people than telling them everything is because we don't know what they want to know. We can't read their minds and if they don't ask any questions, we don't know what to tell them.

With having people who respond extremely quickly, we can't guarantee that we can have a new system of how people can contact staff. Again, we are just human. On top of that, we are people who volunteer to spend our free time doing this. We can't force people to stay on a support line and help people out 24/7. People need to understand that we will try to get back to you as soon as possible, but that doesn't always mean it's instant. We can't control whether we have real life things to deal with or are currently doing something else. With an in game command, that can't guarantee there will be a member of staff at the server to help right away either. It would be like teamspeak. People might not see results as soon as they want to, and end up being mad. That, or they don't see what's happening behind the scene.

I agree with you. We should put effort into reaching out and trust me, we are. We know about the issue about communication and we are trying our best to think of ways to solve it. We have set up a new forum sections we plan to use to better communication. We have set up multiple Q&A's so people can ask and get an answer back asap. We have a FAQs page that we are always looking to update with new frequently asked questions. We even try to specify how people can get information in rules. Trust we when I tell you this, the staff have been working pretty hard to reach out and fix this communication issue. We just need help from the community as well.

The reason we rely on people having to ask question instead of telling them everything is because we don't know what they want to know. Map updates and important server updates are posted on the front page, other updates are posted on the minor announcements. Without the community reaching out and saying, "We want to know about this" or "we're a bit confused by this, please elaborate", we have nothing to work on. We have to rely on members to ask us questions so we understand what to talk about. It's kind of us having to ask members to ask us questions. We will always be looking for new ideas and ways to help solve problems. If anyone has one, they are free to post it and we'll be sure to look into it. People may think we just sit around all day ignoring questions, but we are honestly trying our best to get questions.

 

[ScrewYouGumby2]

I had gotten a conversation form someone (not naming names) asking for the evidence of the ban and why they were banned. it was for BSM and he said he never used it and such but me and a few others said otherwise. at this point I would normally expect that person to start asking questions and go off on how he has never used bsm and such but he surprised me that day. He went and said I didn't use bsm but I'll accept the ban, don't worry about it. thanks for helping.
this completely blew me away. If this person can be noble and except his ban regardless of if it was bsm or not, why can't everyone else?
he was able to accept the fact that, in his opinion, even though we made a mistake he accepted the ban and moved on. If your raging at a game like this then perhaps its time for a week away form the game?
anyways thats my 2 cents.

Yeah, he probably used BSM. If he didn't he would probably be pretty pissed off, people don't try to fight something and just give up like that.

 

[Tal_Pal]

Yeah, he probably used BSM. If he didn't he would probably be pretty pissed off, people don't try to fight something and just give up like that.

you would be surprised at how many people say they do not use bsm and argue constantly when they actually did use bsm. lets just say its over 9000 xD

 

[ScrewYouGumby2]

you would be surprised at how many people say they do not use bsm and argue constantly when they actually did use bsm. lets just say its over 9000 xD

I'm saying it is highly unlikely that he doesn't use bsm if he gave up that easily. Or at least I would think, just an opinion, no one knows for sure.

 

[Claps]

I'm saying it is highly unlikely that he doesn't use bsm if he gave up that easily. Or at least I would think, just an opinion, no one knows for sure.

That's not true. Some people can just accept things better than others. He might understand that the staff had decided that what he did was BSM, or that the proof did indicate BSM use, and didn't try to fight. He knew that they as staff members had no hard feelings towards him and were just going by available evidence. He accepted things and made things easy for everyone. He might have known that acceptance was the best way to go, even if falsely accused. But yeah, just my thoughts.

 

[ScrewYouGumby2]

That's not true. Some people can just accept things better than others. He might understand that the staff had decided that what he did was BSM, or that the proof did indicate BSM use, and didn't try to fight. He knew that they as staff members had no hard feelings towards him and were just going by available evidence. He accepted things and made things easy for everyone. He might have known that acceptance was the best way to go, even if falsely accused. But yeah, just my thoughts.

"Just an opinion."

 

[Claps]

"Just an opinion."

I know. And I gave my opinion on it.

 

[Math_Magician]

I have a question for you, real quick, as well.

Why did you make this thread here?

If you wanted to get something out to the staff, you contact the staff, not the community of MCSG publicly on the forums. Ever. That is why threads like these get locked.

It is none of the communities business to get involved in this, they don't know anything about it, whether what you're saying is entirely true or just another rumor flying around, whatever the case...this thread is just asking for everything to go wrong, and it should be shut down immediately. In fact, you should hope it does, since you've "never EVER meant to cause drama or controversy."

If you really don't want to cause any problems, you should really have taken a more appropriate approach to this. Publicly making a thread, with the knowledge it'll be locked, is not going to get you anywhere closer than contacting them privately would, and quite honestly...if you 'know' they are going to lock it because "they cannot take criticism," then how is this helping anything?


Honestly, every staff out there has it's problems, especially with a staff this huge, but this is not the way for a member of the community to go about trying to fix the problems.

I hate how G33k gets likes on posts just because he is G33k. It is the community's job to get involved in this. If no one in the community ever said anything to oppose the Moderator's decisions, MCSG would be horrible. They are supposed to take the criticism and try to improve. As long as no one is constantly flaming saying the staff is complete crap, it is spreading awareness of what is/has happened to the staff, whether you want to admit it or not. Everyone has to understand that the staff is biased, you cannot disagree. The biased is not always a bad thing, but the people without connections will always complain. It is much like the state of the USA government right now. I don't want to go into politics here, but there is no such thing as a "perfect" government or staff, but as long as people feel like they have some input, and the leaders make it seem like their opinions change something, we will be satisfied. (Sorry if Its sloppy typing, I had to go so I rushed most of it)

 

[CAmadeusA]

I hate how G33k gets likes on posts just because he is G33k. It is the community's job to get involved in this. If no one in the community ever said anything to oppose the Moderator's decisions, MCSG would be horrible. They are supposed to take the criticism and try to improve. As long as no one is constantly flaming saying the staff is complete crap, it is spreading awareness of what is/has happened to the staff, whether you want to admit it or not. Everyone has to understand that the staff is biased, you cannot disagree. The biased is not always a bad thing, but the people without connections will always complain. It is much like the state of the USA government right now. I don't want to go into politics here, but there is no such thing as a "perfect" government or staff, but as long as people feel like they have some input, and the leaders make it seem like their opinions change something, we will be satisfied. (Sorry if Its sloppy typing, I had to go so I rushed most of it)

Where to start...

Hmm, Well, I'm gunna tackle this point by point...

1: G33ke doesnt get likes on posts just for being himself, its because his posts are quality, and worth reading... Second, theres no reason to hate him for it, perhaps learn from it.

2: Its not the communitites job to get involved in matters of staff... The staff and community have a twofold relationship. The Part of the community, is being the players, and enjoying the game... This includes but is not limited to, competitions, feedback, rivalry, friendship, etc... The Staff make backend decisions, and run things, keeping things running smoothly... Ultimitly Chad owns all of MCSG and can make any decision he wants, as he's paying for things...
This hurts me to say, as much as it hurts to be read, but there is no entitlement to make the game "Just How the Players like". However, that IS what Chad likes... That is why he hires Developers and Admins to keep things running in a twofold of the communities, and the staffs best interest...

3: You say if no one opposes the mods decisions, then MCSG would suck (tl:dr) In reality, the admins write guides for us to follow, were following the rules, and enforcing them, we dont make the rules. MCSG as a staff is greatly open to Constructive criticism, but that entails providing ways to improve, instead of tearing down... Which 99% of discussion threads like this are, and even in your post, I see nothing about how we can improve (aside from you saying "try to improve")

4. In your opinion, the staff is biased, everyone is biased, your biased in thinking the staff is biased, im biased for posting this reply. However, the negative connotation of the word "bias" is usually used in a discriminatory way, which is not true of the staff. We make the best decisions for the community in the long view of things. Just because someone disagrees with a ban, or a demotion, makes no real difference...

5. I agree with your statement of there is no perfect staff/government, however, we are VERY different... To comment on your statement about people will always complain: we have a complaints section, and there is a very precise way to go about submitting a complaint... That way, is in the form of constructive criticism, and not saying "MCSG MODS SUCK, there the Spawn of SATAN." (not jokin, saw that message once) Sadly, 99% turn out to be messages of the latter, and therefor are removed, as they are not necessary, and cause flame wars...

6. The Peoples way of contributing is through the MANY various ways of submitting feedback, through: the forums, polls, q and a sessions, PMing the staff, and countless other ways.. However, we go with what the populus wants, which is often different from what the community of forum users want, and thats not something we can help...


TLDR: The community is already good where it is, they dont run the staff, things work well the way they are right now...

 

[Math_Magician]

Where to start...

Hmm, Well, I'm gunna tackle this point by point...

2: Its not the communitites job to get involved in matters of staff... The staff and community have a twofold relationship. The Part of the community, is being the players, and enjoying the game... This includes but is not limited to, competitions, feedback, rivalry, friendship, etc... The Staff make backend decisions, and run things, keeping things running smoothly... Ultimitly Chad owns all of MCSG and can make any decision he wants, as he's paying for things...
This hurts me to say, as much as it hurts to be read, but there is no entitlement to make the game "Just How the Players like". However, that IS what Chad likes... That is why he hires Developers and Admins to keep things running in a twofold of the communities, and the staffs best interest...

The problem is, it is not a bipartisan relationship... You state "but there is no entitlement to make the game 'Just How the Players like'", which is partially true, but if players do not like what is happening with the staff they will leave, and MCSG will consequently lose some traffic. Although a vast majority of players are oblivious to what is happening in the community, there is a small fraction of people (Us forum-ers) that are informed of what is happening and therefore have opinions of the staff, and the actions they take.

1: G33ke doesnt get likes on posts just for being himself, its because his posts are quality, and worth reading... Second, theres no reason to hate him for it, perhaps learn from it.

I am not "hating on him", and I do not appreciate what you are inferring by putting the ellipsis after your 1st statement. Anyways I never said that his posts were not "Worth reading" I was making an observation. I have seen long detailed and very content filled posts only get a few likes, just because the person who wrote it is not very well known.

3: You say if no one opposes the mods decisions, then MCSG would suck (tl:dr) In reality, the admins write guides for us to follow, were following the rules, and enforcing them, we dont make the rules.

I don't understand what "were following the rules" means, but most complaints are not about the actual rules... It is very rare for someone to seriously say "Hacking should be allowed, that is a terrible rule", or "The chat censoring should be abolished, I can't say swears". No, obviously what you hear is "I was falsely banned for BSM, I want the mods to review my evidence" and "I got banned for saying "co.cky" in chat, because "cocky" was censored, but no one was offended by me saying "co.cky" so I don't know why I should get banned", etc. A majority of people complain about the enforcement of the rule, so thank you for helping my cause.

MCSG as a staff is greatly open to Constructive criticism... your post, I see nothing about how we can improve (aside from you saying "try to improve")

I think you misread my post, I never stated that I would put content in my post that would say how you guys can improve, I was justifying Pixel's reason for creating the thread, because G33k basically said it was useless

4. In your opinion, the staff is biased, everyone is biased, your biased in thinking the staff is biased, im biased for posting this reply. However, the negative connotation of the word "bias" is usually used in a discriminatory way, which is not true of the staff. We make the best decisions for the community in the long view of things. Just because someone disagrees with a ban, or a demotion, makes no real difference...

The biased is not always a bad thing,

Yes, the staff is biased in good ways, but I know of cases when people that should have been unbanned have their bans upheld because they staff did not like them, and others unbanned because they were friends to some extent. Although this is quite rare, it does happen. But, MCSG does a good job with this.

We can play the game saying going in circles about what is biased and what is not, but even you have to admit the Staff is biased, but like how both you and I agreed, IT IS NOT ALWAYS BAD.

5. I agree with your statement of there is no perfect staff/government, however, we are VERY different... To comment on your statement about people will always complain: we have a complaints section, and there is a very precise way to go about submitting a complaint... That way, is in the form of constructive criticism, and not saying "MCSG MODS SUCK, there the Spawn of SATAN." (not jokin, saw that message once) Sadly, 99% turn out to be messages of the latter, and therefor are removed, as they are not necessary, and cause flame wars...

I agree, but it is often interesting to see what other people's opinions are about subject matters. I often find that the MCSG community is mature enough to handle subjects such as these. I don't find this conversation we are having as "Flame", but merely a discussion. Although MCSG is much like an aristocracy (A very well functional one at that), hearing what the community has to say is interesting from both a moderating and player standpoint (Unless it is like the Satan thing, that would be bad)

6. The Peoples way of contributing is through the MANY various ways of submitting feedback, through: the forums, polls, q and a sessions, PMing the staff, and countless other ways.. However, we go with what the populus wants, which is often different from what the community of forum users want, and thats not something we can help...
TLDR: The community is already good where it is, they dont run the staff, things work well the way they are right now...

I never said the community should run the staff. I merely stated the staff should be tolerant of the constructive criticism the community gives (and only if it is constructive, not flame).

TL;DR: In my post I was stating that the staff should not be more tolerant of threads such as these, as long as they do not go out of hand.