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The God Debate

What is your religion?


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Creepah

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I know it's not a problem as such on this thread, but if you want to be specific with your beliefs here's some terms you may want to use.

Theist
An individual who believes in a single god as the creator and ruler of the universe with no doubt.

Agnostic Theist
An individual who believes that there is a god or creator, however is not sure or undecided on which religion represents the correct god.

Agnostic
An individual who is unsure in their beliefs and doesn't know if a god or creator exists but does not deny the possibility of one.

Agnostic Atheist
An individual who does not believe in a god or creator however could do if proof was provided or their mind was changed.

Atheist
An individual who does not believe in a god or creator or any divine intervention at all and normally bases that belief off scientific proof or self reasoning.

I myself am an Agnostic Atheist, but is open to the reasoning and points of view of other religions and beliefs.
 

Imanol

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Honestly, most people believe that we are just made for death, we die than we are nothing that's just how it is. But on my side I believe that Heaven is a thing and I hope I can see all my deceased friends and family there at the age of 30.
 

BitoBain

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Well, I've been wanting to post on this thread for a while, so here it goes.

I think religion is great. It teaches people how to be amazing. Most religions have a lot in common with others; I once saw a list of twenty traits that every major religion in the world teaches and was surprised by the similarities. If the majority of the world belongs to a major, positive-trait-seeking religion, then I think humanity will continue to progress and do great things. Religion has also famously been called "the opiate for the masses", meaning people often use religion to make themselves happier and more content with life on Earth. In my opinion, that is a good thing.

As for the actual truth of any religion on Earth, I don't know... and I doubt anyone knows completely for sure. I know people have great faith, but I think supposedly "knowing" a religion is true is a stretch. According to scientific principles, in order to be able to claim something exists, it has to be observable with one of the senses. This argument is often countered by either claiming that religion is something indescribable, or something felt, or by claiming that they do have proof. Historical documents and modern historians agree that religious figures and founders such as Christ and Muhammad did indeed exist and perform supposed miracles. However, those events occurred so long ago and the documents have often been tampered with so much that nobody knows for sure what they actually did in their lives.

Another great evidence for religion is what cadecranda mentioned above: Earth and the universe are so beautiful and orderly that they couldn't have possibly been created by chance. It is indeed true that things like Earth and life itself are extraordinarily rare in the universe, which brings up a mind-boggling truth.

The universe is a two part relationship between the universe and the observer. If the universe did not exist, you would not exist. If you did not exist, the universe would be neither nothing nor anything. It would simply be a giant question mark, never to be seen or appreciated. It could be anything from an electron to a multidimensional void without laws of physics to quite literally everything, but it wouldn't matter. This is why many atheists often view their death as the end of the universe. This is also why many people are scared of death, as well as why humans often feel a need to make up explanations for what happens after death, which could be true.

This brings me to my next point: Earth could simply be as fantastic as it is because we are here to observe it. Perhaps we are the only intelligent life in the universe because of the extreme luck required, and we will thus be the only ones to ever build a great Taj Mahal and understand the grandeur of everything.

Moving onto more controversial and opinionated stuff...​

A common argument used against evolution is the concept of irreducible complexity. This states that certain structures, such as the human eye and famously, the tale of bacterial flagellum, are too fragile in their structure to have come about by nature. The bacterial flagellum has 21 muscles in its tail, and without every single one, the tail would be rendered useless, and therefore never could have come about by evolution due to death of any species "lucky" enough to develop part of that tail. Keep in mind that this argument has lost traction in the past five or so years due to new research, but in 2008 a company tried to publish a textbook concerning this for use in public education, entitled Of Pandas and People. It argued that an arbitrary "intelligent designer" aided evolution, and that the creation of Earth came not entirely by chance. After losing one vital court case, though, the movement lost all of its momentum.

The Intelligent Design movement was accused of simply being a substitute for "God's Design", which came to light after a document was found that forgot to replace the word "God" with "Intelligent", which was the crippling blow in the court case. However, the argument brought up about Earth simply being a haven of observance could also be effectively used to counter the irreducible complexity argument.

But what if all modern understandings of evolution, physics, and radiometric dating was found to have one or several major, unavoidable flaws, therefore making creationism the only valid argument for the explanation of the universe? (I have no idea how this would happen...) Would that really change the political outlook of religion on Earth? Would it really solve any issues in the middle east between the Sunnis and Shiites, or could it have prevented the splitting of India into three separate countries? Likely, people would fight just like they always have. Many religions claim to be the only true religion, but how can they all claim that? There is either one true religion, no true religion, or we live in a strange reality in which truths are based more solely on the Placebo Effect than actual proof, therefore suggesting that religion and logic are not what we imagined, and humans are far more powerful than we thought. (Don't count on the last one.)

I personally think it is downright egotistic and ignorant to claim that oneself knows that they belong to the one and only true religion. It's possible, but considering how thickly religion has tied into history and politics, how it has changed over time, and even cultural differences of a single sect seems to suggest that if there is a true religion, it is tied to very loosely figures, laws, and commandments. I think an open-minded approach to religion is best; one must watch out for false speculators.

The inconsistency of my religion has always bugged me. I have heard everything from sexist/racist commentary based on scripture to those claiming that the Earth is 6,000 years old, to those claiming that the universe is as old as the Earth. I have seen supposed Christian doctrine get wrapped into practical factions within my religious community, as well as supposed fanatics claiming to be better than normal adherents of my religion. I saw my religion get attacked on all fronts, including from my own household and mind. I saw my father pass away at age 15, which caused a severe hatred for the world that no amount of "love from God" seemed to be able to cure. I never could wrap my head around the events that followed, other than the fact that most supposed good adherents of my religion seemed to live much easier lives than those who had fallen away, suggesting that religion is often more about community than truth. To one who sought such logic and pure truth, this was too much for my pathetic little mind at the age of 15 to understand, and I officially yet secretly left my religion nearly a year ago.

At first, I sunk further into depression, as I had nothing to "lean on." But after learning to listen to my own heart and learning to better take initiative of my own life, I began to see a new reality that was very different, yet in some ways better than what I left behind. I pulled out of depression this summer, which is so great you can't even imagine it... I discovered that my religion lied to me about a lot of things, which I couldn't see till I left it. Some of those lies included the idea that only its adherents were truly pure and complete people, that life would be bleak and colorless without my religion, that religious people are always stronger, and that making myself pure and polished is more moral than seeking to help the entire human race.

Of course, nobody can live a baseless life, which is why I have my own religion. I simply call it "Exploration." The goal of this religion is extraordinarily simple: One must do everything in their power to use their talents and resources to advance the exploration of the beautiful universe, which cannot exist or be admired without intelligent life. Exploring the universe comes in many forms, but it is always pleasurable. Morality in this religion is based on empathy, in which one tries to do what is best for the human race and the environment, as if one can the feel pain and yearnings that others feel.

I am now happier than I have been in years, and I have been doing better as I have become more open to others about my feelings and I have sought to advance the human race as a whole rather than myself. I guess you could say neither religion nor hard atheism are for everyone, but everyone will be happier if they choose something to believe in and become dedicated to it. Waiting on the fence to decide where you belong in life causes nothing but sorrow, and it keeps us from reaching our full potential.

-Bito
 

powdski

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Well, I've been wanting to post on this thread for a while, so here it goes.

I think religion is great. It teaches people how to be amazing. Most religions have a lot in common with others; I once saw a list of twenty traits that every major religion in the world teaches and was surprised by the similarities. If the majority of the world belongs to a major, positive-trait-seeking religion, then I think humanity will continue to progress and do great things. Religion has also famously been called "the opiate for the masses", meaning people often use religion to make themselves happier and more content with life on Earth. In my opinion, that is a good thing.

As for the actual truth of any religion on Earth, I don't know... and I doubt anyone knows completely for sure. I know people have great faith, but I think supposedly "knowing" a religion is true is a stretch. According to scientific principles, in order to be able to claim something exists, it has to be observable with one of the senses. This argument is often countered by either claiming that religion is something indescribable, or something felt, or by claiming that they do have proof. Historical documents and modern historians agree that religious figures and founders such as Christ and Muhammad did indeed exist and perform supposed miracles. However, those events occurred so long ago and the documents have often been tampered with so much that nobody knows for sure what they actually did in their lives.

Another great evidence for religion is what cadecranda mentioned above: Earth and the universe are so beautiful and orderly that they couldn't have possibly been created by chance. It is indeed true that things like Earth and life itself are extraordinarily rare in the universe, which brings up a mind-boggling truth.

The universe is a two part relationship between the universe and the observer. If the universe did not exist, you would not exist. If you did not exist, the universe would be neither nothing nor anything. It would simply be a giant question mark, never to be seen or appreciated. It could be anything from an electron to a multidimensional void without laws of physics to quite literally everything, but it wouldn't matter. This is why many atheists often view their death as the end of the universe. This is also why many people are scared of death, as well as why humans often feel a need to make up explanations for what happens after death, which could be true.

This brings me to my next point: Earth could simply be as fantastic as it is because we are here to observe it. Perhaps we are the only intelligent life in the universe because of the extreme luck required, and we will thus be the only ones to ever build a great Taj Mahal and understand the grandeur of everything.

Moving onto more controversial and opinionated stuff...​

A common argument used against evolution is the concept of irreducible complexity. This states that certain structures, such as the human eye and famously, the tale of bacterial flagellum, are too fragile in their structure to have come about by nature. The bacterial flagellum has 21 muscles in its tail, and without every single one, the tail would be rendered useless, and therefore never could have come about by evolution due to death of any species "lucky" enough to develop part of that tail. Keep in mind that this argument has lost traction in the past five or so years due to new research, but in 2008 a company tried to publish a textbook concerning this for use in public education, entitled Of Pandas and People. It argued that an arbitrary "intelligent designer" aided evolution, and that the creation of Earth came not entirely by chance. After losing one vital court case, though, the movement lost all of its momentum.

The Intelligent Design movement was accused of simply being a substitute for "God's Design", which came to light after a document was found that forgot to replace the word "God" with "Intelligent", which was the crippling blow in the court case. However, the argument brought up about Earth simply being a haven of observance could also be effectively used to counter the irreducible complexity argument.

But what if all modern understandings of evolution, physics, and radiometric dating was found to have one or several major, unavoidable flaws, therefore making creationism the only valid argument for the explanation of the universe? (I have no idea how this would happen...) Would that really change the political outlook of religion on Earth? Would it really solve any issues in the middle east between the Sunnis and Shiites, or could it have prevented the splitting of India into three separate countries? Likely, people would fight just like they always have. Many religions claim to be the only true religion, but how can they all claim that? There is either one true religion, no true religion, or we live in a strange reality in which truths are based more solely on the Placebo Effect than actual proof, therefore suggesting that religion and logic are not what we imagined, and humans are far more powerful than we thought. (Don't count on the last one.)

I personally think it is downright egotistic and ignorant to claim that oneself knows that they belong to the one and only true religion. It's possible, but considering how thickly religion has tied into history and politics, how it has changed over time, and even cultural differences of a single sect seems to suggest that if there is a true religion, it is tied to very loosely figures, laws, and commandments. I think an open-minded approach to religion is best; one must watch out for false speculators.

The inconsistency of my religion has always bugged me. I have heard everything from sexist/racist commentary based on scripture to those claiming that the Earth is 6,000 years old, to those claiming that the universe is as old as the Earth. I have seen supposed Christian doctrine get wrapped into practical factions within my religious community, as well as supposed fanatics claiming to be better than normal adherents of my religion. I saw my religion get attacked on all fronts, including from my own household and mind. I saw my father pass away at age 15, which caused a severe hatred for the world that no amount of "love from God" seemed to be able to cure. I never could wrap my head around the events that followed, other than the fact that most supposed good adherents of my religion seemed to live much easier lives than those who had fallen away, suggesting that religion is often more about community than truth. To one who sought such logic and pure truth, this was too much for my pathetic little mind at the age of 15 to understand, and I officially yet secretly left my religion nearly a year ago.

At first, I sunk further into depression, as I had nothing to "lean on." But after learning to listen to my own heart and learning to better take initiative of my own life, I began to see a new reality that was very different, yet in some ways better than what I left behind. I pulled out of depression this summer, which is so great you can't even imagine it... I discovered that my religion lied to me about a lot of things, which I couldn't see till I left it. Some of those lies included the idea that only its adherents were truly pure and complete people, that life would be bleak and colorless without my religion, that religious people are always stronger, and that making myself pure and polished is more moral than seeking to help the entire human race.

Of course, nobody can live a baseless life, which is why I have my own religion. I simply call it "Exploration." The goal of this religion is extraordinarily simple: One must do everything in their power to use their talents and resources to advance the exploration of the beautiful universe, which cannot exist or be admired without intelligent life. Exploring the universe comes in many forms, but it is always pleasurable. Morality in this religion is based on empathy, in which one tries to do what is best for the human race and the environment, as if one can the feel pain and yearnings that others feel.

I am now happier than I have been in years, and I have been doing better as I have become more open to others about my feelings and I have sought to advance the human race as a whole rather than myself. I guess you could say neither religion nor hard atheism are for everyone, but everyone will be happier if they choose something to believe in and become dedicated to it. Waiting on the fence to decide where you belong in life causes nothing but sorrow, and it keeps us from reaching our full potential.

-Bito
Nicely written!
 

Captain Dory

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I believe that being gay is a sin.
Aaaand this is why I chose Atheism.

In my honest opinion, the little benefit that people gain from religion (Which I cannot understand; would a Christian please elaborate?) does not compare with the wars and death that are results of 'almighty god himself.'

I am however Agnostic, and would love to hear other people's voices on this matter.
 
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Pikachu

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Ight so I'm going to go full rant I haven't in a while but I will now.
I'm atheist, for one, because it seems very unlikely for religion and many things implied in it to be possible. So much of religion clashes with science and simple logic, which should take priority considering it tends to have evidence. Religion seems illogical to me, just due to lack of evidence. There are obvious given things you'd believe simply because they make sense, such as: a banana is a fruit. Let's just take that example. You don't hear that and demand evidence, simply because it makes sense. However, a deity that created the universe and everything in it, I won't put my trust in that simply because a book said so. If I should believe in God, just because a
Ight so I'm going to go full rant I haven't in a while but I will now.
I'm atheist, for one, because it seems very unlikely for religion and many things implied in it to be possible. So much of religion clashes with science and simple logic, which should take priority considering it tends to have evidence. Religion seems illogical to me, just due to lack of evidence. There are obvious given things you'd believe simply because they make sense, such as: a banana is a fruit. Let's just take that example. You don't hear that and demand evidence, simply because it makes sense. However, a deity that created the universe and everything in it, I won't put my trust in that simply because a book said so. If I should believe in God, just because a book called the bible told me so, then by that logic, I should believe the hunger games is a real event that happens every year, Pokemon are real, and every zombie apocalypse based book is accurate and based on true events as well. Considering a book isn't evidence, I'd like something else. Back to the banana, it grows on trees and has seeds, so even if a banana didn't seem like a fruit, evidence suggests it is. If there was documented legitimate proof that God came down and said "I'm real" or some crap, I'd believe it because there'd be evidence. It's why I put my trust into science and logic, because it has evidence for almost anything, and anything without (take string theory for example) has overwhelming suggestion, making it seem almost completely accurate. You can't say it's true, but saying it's false isn't a good bet either. However, saying religion is false, although not necessarily true, makes some sense considering the overwhelming suggestion AGAINST it. Creationism is impossible and evidence proves that bit for a fact, Considering the "theory" (to use cade's words) of evolution, carbon dating, etc. However, one cannot COMPLETELY rule out religion, although I find it next to impossible.
Also, in my opinion religion has corrupted many minds into believing some terrible things. It's supports sexism, racism, and above all homophobia. Homophobia is fortunately slowly becoming much less of a problem, but it's unbelievable how many people who support denominations of Christianity just will blindly say "being gay is sinful and evil". It's horrible they act like gays aren't even real people when in reality, they're a hell of a lot nicer than whoever the person judging them is. People need to have a free mind and their own thoughts instead of only sticking to what the bible says. You can't just say "the bible said gays are bad... so... they are. Screw off (forgive my language) fag." If it says something that legitimate morals agree with like stealing is wrong or something, them by all means support it but don't just say it's all right.
My theory of how religion came about: imagine it, you're a king in a pre-modern land of hundreds of thousands who you want to follow your every whim. Unfortunately, people begin to disagree, have free minds, and want fairness and freedom. No, your people your land, your kingdom is approaching an end slowly. What do you do what could possibly get everyone to do what you say? Why didn't I think of this before- I'll tell everyone we've received word from a deity, an almighty being that is very fair and loving. One who knows exactly what you all have to do (which is coincidentally what I want you to do as well). And guess what even if you decide you still don't wanna follow the rules, he controls what happens when you die too..if you're not good, you'll endure horrid suffering and torture after death. And don't worry, you can't kill yourself to escape even after several years of being good, because that'll send you to hell too. Remember- he thinks women need to do well serving their men because they're priority, being gay is wrong because gays can't have s3x to make more children and expand my kingdommm- I mean because it's a sin. Yeah that. Here's a list of all the stuff you have to do,plus stories of miracles I totally did because seems legit. Eh, I guess we can stick in a few morals too.
A few years later. Wow this have proved incredibly successful, I think I'm going to make a sequel, and implement more cool stuff. Let's kick it off by murdering my son, that sounds noble and crap. SO YEAH I basically think Christianity and similar religions were no more than an attempt (successful one) to hypnotize as many people as possible so a leader could get what he wanted from his less loyal than he wanted subjects.
SOME MORE STUFF ON DISPROVING RELIGION YAY
I'm going to be the legit most stereotypical atheist ever and bring up the pastafarianism argument. To anyone who doesn't know, pastafarianism is a false religion created simply for the sake of making fun of Christianity, however it makes a great deal of sense. Pastafarianism is what the name implies, a religion based on our Lord and savior, the flying spaghetti monster. If you follow his sacred book, you can go to heaven as well however if you're bad, you'll go to the land of stale beer and ugly bartenders. There's plenty more to it but details are unimportant to the main point which is: everything about it is a concise specific spoof of Christianity TO THE POINT. The reason this is important is that you technically can't prove this is all real or not. Everything involved, like Christianity, has no evidence at all proving or disproving it. So considering they both have as much logic hacking them, how do you choose which one makes sense? Blind faith? Guessing game? Flip a coin? Pastafarianism is an example of what any religion does: taking things you can't prove but also can't disprove and saying you should believe anyways because I said so. This is the primary reason why religion doesn't make much sense is because, considering there are so many, none of which have actual proof, why would you choose a certain one instead of just saying "I'll believe in what has evidence, because that's what I can rely on to be real." It just makes more sense.
Well okay rant over (btw I'm not biased towards anything I was born to a 75% Jewish 25% Mormon family bit eventually developed my own opinion.)
Agh... I hate reading this thread. A ton. It just depresses me how much our world has changed; people seem to always rely on self instead of one who is the Creator.

Let me backtrack... During this week, I've been in the 4th most violent country in the World. Why? To share my beliefs. In the midst of all of the violence, I've been allowed to share "mi paz" or my peace with these peoples in El Salvador. It's a peace that is everlasting. It's a peace that doesn't fail.

This brings me to my point above: if we aren't always reliant, why do we put faith in ourselves?

It's impossible to say that you've never done wrong, you've never made a mistake, you've never hurt another. We're evil, in a way. All of us. You, me; even the leaders of our society. If we're evil, why don't we lean on someone who is not? (I really don't know if that's like a good point lol I'm typing this on a couch on my phone at like 10:49 help)

Going to backtrack again because mi teléfono es estupido.

In El Salvador, our main, material mission is to bring presents for the Salvadoreñas (Spanglish tho). The joy that I see when they open these simple gifts is incredible. Before we allow them to open the gifts, we present a main summary of the Gospel of the Christian religion. I just want to leave you with this.

If I give you a gift, it is free; correct? If it was not, it wouldn't be one. This Christmas, be thankful for those gifts that you may receive. It is good to be served. But most of all, contemplate what could be a better gift: to be eternally righteous. (lol probably just got like 14 reports same). The gift of my God that I would love to share with all of you is salvation from this evil world. You need only to trust in Jesus Christ, the Messiah of the Earth and Prince of the
Heavens. It's hard to comprehend, even for myself. I have so much more to say but this post is probably going to get deleted and my phone is almost dead lol.

But since I left off on an abrupt spot, just pM me if you like have a question orwanna slaughter me

ok peas ✊✌✌
I'm sorry that beginning really fazed me there... you're depressed that people believe differently than you? Do you think society is going downhill just because atheism is gaining dominance so quickly and finally approaching religion? How can you say that you're depressed and sad that people don't believe in your invisible man in the sky? I'm sorry I can't understand your thought process here.
 

Fox

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I was raised in a catholic roof, and was inculcated with that religion.
In my case, I never went to Church or praised to God or have in my life read the Bible. As I said, I was instilled with the Catholic religion, though instill or inculcate sound rather harsh. Rather, whether I believe in God or not wasn't a problem for my family.
Say, I'm rather glad that my family isn't overly-religious.

As far as in what I believe, I do think there's someone there watching for me. I also believe that there is some type of god-like person, homunculus we could say, and believe in most of the principles Alchemy was based of (Immortality, humunuculus, elixir, etc). Very fantasy-like...
Despite this, what I mostly believe in is on what the human mind is able to believe. The human mind has come up with emotions, religions, wars, what-not. I believe that whoever is able to control their own mind perfectly is a God; someone who can decide every aspect of what they believe in, of the principles they follow and what they want to strive for.
I believe in faith, happiness, terror, pain, sadness, equanimity, and believe that life isn't as bad as we think; I once told this to a friend who suffers of depression and has been faithful with himself ever since, is more confident and truly does believe life isn't as hard as we think.

Am I Catholic?
Am I Atheist?
Am I Creationist?
Am I Christian?
Am I Agnostic?
Am I Buddhist?
Am I Baptist?

I don't think I'm any of them. :p

Anyway. That's what I believe in. Anyone else with similar thoughts? c:
 

Zetzus

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I simply try not to contemplate the creation of earth through scientific theory, as it generally leaves me with blank thoughts xD.. Although I also dislike the idea of following a religion, so I guess I am kinda in the middle. I just go with being agnostic so that people don't try to convert me, or bother me on the topic that I really have no interest in. I guess I was lucky that I didn't have parents who enforced religion upon me, therefore allowing me to come to my own decision at the right age. Although in saying this, I do not dislike those who believe in a greater god, or just religion for that matter. One thing that I simply cannot stand are Evangelical Christians. In short, I guess I would lean more towards the creation of life through science, call me mainstream, but I tend to prefer relying on what seems logical. Now just to contradict most things I have said, I am actually very superstitious, I tend to believe in many things that some would consider strange. I don't know why, but I just find the theory of God's Creation being 'too unrealistic'. : /

ye, im wierd. ;) ty for reading <3
 

boboy1999

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I am an Atheist but I will not get into the reasons because it will take too long. Atheism and Agnosticism is not a religion in any way. It simply means you don't have one.
Calling Atheism or Agnosticism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.
 
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