Recently added maps and their structures

[BitoBain]

I am posting this thread because of the recently added maps and the annoyance of how they run for many people. I am talking about Turbulence, Mortal Skies, Dracarys, and The Eye of Horus. These maps got accepted quite frankly because they were good looking and appeared fun. But in the thread for each map nobody got to see how laggy the map would be. They just posted some shaders screenshots and put some dramatic music behind some cinematic eagle-perspective videos and everyone said "WOW this map looks perfect why hasn't it been added yet??!!!1/". These maps lag awfully for many people. On a normal map I get 50-80 fps with optifine, but on those four maps, I get 5-20 fps. Map makers need to realize that just because a map is drop-dead gorgeous it may not necessarily be good for gameplay. There should be test runs on every map before it is added by people with a variety of lower-end computers to see how they will perform.

In the past couple of map updates, I have been increasingly noticing two things: Maps are getting better looking, and they are getting laggier. Lobby games seemed to be the start of this trend, as in the eastern end of the map you may get as low as 5-10% of your typical fps, and in the deathmatch arena you may get no fps at all. There was also Icarus, which is a very classy and exciting map, yet it is extremely detailed and fairly laggy. Then Eye of Horus came about, which has enough item frames to completely plaster the entire dome on SG 2. Turbulence was highly anticipated to be a fun map, and it has been, but the cornucopia is hideously laggy for me, giving me 15 fps, and therefore giving me no chance of survival in deathmatch. Mortal Skies has an atrocious cornucopia as well, giving me around 7 fps, once again denying me any chance of survival in deathmatch. And finally they added Dracarys today, which is just continuing the pattern. Another really fancy, nice-looking map that gives me a quarter of my usual fps in many regions of the map.

Dear build teams, stop worrying so much about how nice the map looks and just take out some glass, slabs, stairs, and item frames! I don't care how modern or nice the map looks if I can barely see it in the first place. Give the map a dome, for heaven's sake, so we don't get extra lag from parts of the map nobody needs to see. Domes look nice, anyways, and they are traditional. And can we get a new lobby please? Nobody appreciates the fact that we get 1/10 our usual fps when looking at anything of the lobby because every single surface is plastered with stairs, fences, and trapdoors. Nobody appreciates the fact that Team Elite gets all the attention and gets one new map added every update. They make good-looking maps of course, but in my mind Team Elite is associated with lag, and other people need a chance. (Dracarys = Team Elite strikes again)

The community really does appreciate the map creators and the hundreds of hours they have spent making these wonderful maps that refresh our gameplay, but it does seem that map creators often get more caught up in the design and aesthetics of the map than the actual gameplay and lag it will make. This is why I totally miss Team Vareide sometimes... And I wish we had more maps from Static_Nightmare. (Two Breeze Islands and one SG Highway!)

So here is what I am asking for:

• Map creators should add less laggy blocks, which includes anything that is not a full block. (Stairs, slabs, fences, liquids, etc...)
• Every map should have test runs with people who have a variety of pc's to see if the map will be too laggy.
• A special effort should be made to ensure that the cornucopia is not laggy. As the cornocupia is where the most fighting happens, as well as the deathmatch, it is a disaster to have a cornucopia that gives everyone half their usual fps.
• Deathmatch arenas should be made for maps that have poor cornucopias in terms of gameplay and lag, such as Zone 85, Turbulence, and Moonbase 9.
  
• It would be nice if someone besides Team Elite and Red Forest could get some attention every once in a while. Other creators need to submit their maps to the map committee.
• I am begging you for a new lobby. Many people are... This lobby pushes away newcomers as it is one of the first things they see when they join these servers. A big, laggy mess.

Thank you for reading and please consider the above bullet points.

Here are some excellent reasons to avoid making excessively detailed maps, by G33ke.

Honestly, there are more reasons than this to avoid stairs/trapdoors/slabs.

Something I always stress when people are building maps for PvP: Minimalism! As someone who has played thousands of games and done plenty of PvP, I've noticed patterns: In general, I find it much harder to focus and get a feel for my surroundings when everything has so much detail. "What are all these holes in the wall? Oh, nothing...which one is the door?" Then I look at the ground in SG4's corn...with like 4 different types of blocks decorating it.

I've grown accustomed to ignoring it, but I still see the flaws. I've seen really complicated buildings and walls that really do take a few moments to take in, especially those made with lots of slabs and stairs: This really doesn't sound like a big deal, but when playing SG, I have to be able to immediately tell what the door is and what the wall is. When fighting players, I also need to know the nearest location to run to if needed, and be able to quickly check my surroundings. Nothing makes this more difficult than loads of different details and textures everywhere making noticing that little name tag through a wall just that much harder.

Beyond that, some maps, like zone 86, (those are the numbers...right?) have some details so specific that it directly effects gameplay. In the corn of this map, the ground is littered with stairs, slabs, and even just plain old holes in the ground. These are annoying and sometimes nearly impossible to avoid falling into when in the middle of the crucial deathmatch battle, and make using a flint and steel unreliable and frustrating. Other maps, like solar frost, have similar problems, where the random ice blocks or tiny incline details map using flint and steel as well as running and chasing endlessly frustrating in the corn, becoming a major problem due to the heavy amount of battles that take place in this part of the map. This is partly why I'm under the firm belief it didn't need such a huge overhaul. Beyond that, maps such as Holiday Resort, SG1, SG2, and many others have lots of unnecessary tall grass in the corn, making using flint and steels and hitting the lower part of players bodies in deathmatch frustrating.


Despite all of this, I completely understand why map makers keep making the maps look as pretty as possible: Many people take how good a map is at face value. Does it look good? Good. You have a map. Sadly, it's not much more complicated than that when maps are being accepted. I mean, obviously, maps with severe flaws won't make it, but we still get maps that are kind of..."meh." in gameplay once in a while.


SG4 and Breeze Island, beyond being small maps, both had one thing in common: They are simple. Flat? Check. Details? Minimal. (aside from SG4 corn.) Some of the newer popular maps also follow this. Holiday resort? Rivers here and there, a couple hills...mostly flat. Valleyside University? Completely flat. Details in both? Minimal in comparison to many other maps. Teweran maps are great examples of detailed maps that aren't played often: The one exception being TSG2, likely the most popular detailed map, and the only real exception I can think of at this moment.

Regardless, it has always been to my understanding that excess amounts of trapdoors, slabs, and stairs is usually not good for a PvP oriented map: Many PvP servers I see tend to have more minimalistic approaches when dealing with PvP oriented game modes, even when their other stuff looks really shiny. Too much so? Maybe. But did I, as a player, enjoy it? Yes. Less of a headache for me to deal with.
And, of course, as you said, avoiding lag is good as well. Crops, vines, and anything that grows can be added to this list. Huge farms or large amounts of vines can cause problems from my experience.

 

[Thapple_]

I approve of this thread.

 

[Mooclan]

I have to say, I agree.

I was on the MCGamer Creative server earlier today, building a simple structure of various stones and stone bricks. None of the nearby plots were causing me lag, but every time I looked at my own plot, I dropped by a good 30 FPS.
Why?
I had stone slabs in a staircase. It only went about twenty blocks high, but the slabs (The staircase was pure slabs, which I now regret) were dropping me like mad.
I now can't stand to look at the center of my plot, because the jerky FPS hurts my eyes. ;-;

 

[Dzbs]

Why Turbulence? I laik Turbulence. I get about 100 fps on it, and I don't have a beefy cpu.

 

[BitoBain]

Why Turbulence? I laik Turbulence. I get about 100 fps on it, and I don't have a beefy cpu.

That is why I say maps should be tested by a wide variety of people before they are added. For some people, certain maps lag a lot, while for others, they don't at all. For me, Turbulence lags a lot, mainly at corn. Valleyside didn't used to lag, but now that I have optifine, it lags severely when I am facing east. For me, it seems that the amount of partial blocks is strongly correlated with my fps, while others seem to have more stable (yet not powerful) pc's that are not affected by such petty details. I'm sorry if this thread didn't make sense or relate to a lot of people, but it seemed like a big issue.

 

[Siewer]

I really agree with this thread. The map that lags the most for me is probably Icarus. I mean, I got a sword from spawn once, and 2 baccas fisted me to death in a corner because I was getting like 5 fps. MCSG needs to add more good maps that aren't so laggy for low-end pc's, such as Tewaran SG2 and Holiday Resort.

 

[G33ke]

Honestly, there are more reasons than this to avoid stairs/trapdoors/slabs.

Something I always stress when people are building maps for PvP: Minimalism! As someone who has played thousands of games and done plenty of PvP, I've noticed patterns: In general, I find it much harder to focus and get a feel for my surroundings when everything has so much detail. "What are all these holes in the wall? Oh, nothing...which one is the door?" Then I look at the ground in SG4's corn...with like 4 different types of blocks decorating it.

I've grown accustomed to ignoring it, but I still see the flaws. I've seen really complicated buildings and walls that really do take a few moments to take in, especially those made with lots of slabs and stairs: This really doesn't sound like a big deal, but when playing SG, I have to be able to immediately tell what the door is and what the wall is. When fighting players, I also need to know the nearest location to run to if needed, and be able to quickly check my surroundings. Nothing makes this more difficult than loads of different details and textures everywhere making noticing that little name tag through a wall just that much harder.

Beyond that, some maps, like zone 86, (those are the numbers...right?) have some details so specific that it directly effects gameplay. In the corn of this map, the ground is littered with stairs, slabs, and even just plain old holes in the ground. These are annoying and sometimes nearly impossible to avoid falling into when in the middle of the crucial deathmatch battle, and make using a flint and steel unreliable and frustrating. Other maps, like solar frost, have similar problems, where the random ice blocks or tiny incline details make using flint and steel as well as running and chasing endlessly frustrating in the corn, becoming a major problem due to the heavy amount of battles that take place in this part of the map. This is partly why I'm under the firm belief it didn't need such a huge overhaul. Beyond that, maps such as Holiday Resort, SG1, SG2, and many others have lots of unnecessary tall grass in the corn, making using flint and steels and hitting the lower part of players bodies in deathmatch frustrating.


Despite all of this, I completely understand why map makers keep making the maps look as pretty as possible: Many people take how good a map is at face value. Does it look good? Good. You have a map. Sadly, it's not much more complicated than that when maps are being accepted. I mean, obviously, maps with severe flaws won't make it, but we still get maps that are kind of..."meh." in gameplay once in a while.


SG4 and Breeze Island, beyond being small maps, both had one thing in common: They are simple. Flat? Check. Details? Minimal. (aside from SG4 corn.) Some of the newer popular maps also follow this. Holiday resort? Rivers here and there, a couple hills...mostly flat. Valleyside University? Completely flat. Details in both? Minimal in comparison to many other maps. Teweran maps are great examples of detailed maps that aren't played often: The one exception being TSG2, likely the most popular detailed map, and the only real exception I can think of at this moment.

Regardless, it has always been to my understanding that excess amounts of trapdoors, slabs, and stairs is usually not good for a PvP oriented map: Many PvP servers I see tend to have more minimalistic approaches when dealing with PvP oriented game modes, even when their other stuff looks really shiny. Too much so? Maybe. But did I, as a player, enjoy it? Yes. Less of a headache for me to deal with.
And, of course, as you said, avoiding lag is good as well. Crops, vines, and anything that grows can be added to this list. Huge farms or large amounts of vines can cause problems from my experience.

 

[BitoBain]

Honestly, there are more reasons than this to avoid stairs/trapdoors/slabs.

Something I always stress when people are building maps for PvP: Minimalism! As someone who has played thousands of games and done plenty of PvP, I've noticed patterns: In general, I find it much harder to focus and get a feel for my surroundings when everything has so much detail. "What are all these holes in the wall? Oh, nothing...which one is the door?" Then I look at the ground in SG4's corn...with like 4 different types of blocks decorating it.

I've grown accustomed to ignoring it, but I still see the flaws. I've seen really complicated buildings and walls that really do take a few moments to take in, especially those made with lots of slabs and stairs: This really doesn't sound like a big deal, but when playing SG, I have to be able to immediately tell what the door is and what the wall is. When fighting players, I also need to know the nearest location to run to if needed, and be able to quickly check my surroundings. Nothing makes this more difficult than loads of different details and textures everywhere making noticing that little name tag through a wall just that much harder.

Beyond that, some maps, like zone 86, (those are the numbers...right?) have some details so specific that it directly effects gameplay. In the corn of this map, the ground is littered with stairs, slabs, and even just plain old holes in the ground. These are annoying and sometimes nearly impossible to avoid falling into when in the middle of the crucial deathmatch battle, and make using a flint and steel unreliable and frustrating. Other maps, like solar frost, have similar problems, where the random ice blocks or tiny incline details map using flint and steel as well as running and chasing endlessly frustrating in the corn, becoming a major problem due to the heavy amount of battles that take place in this part of the map. This is partly why I'm under the firm belief it didn't need such a huge overhaul. Beyond that, maps such as Holiday Resort, SG1, SG2, and many others have lots of unnecessary tall grass in the corn, making using flint and steels and hitting the lower part of players bodies in deathmatch frustrating.


Despite all of this, I completely understand why map makers keep making the maps look as pretty as possible: Many people take how good a map is at face value. Does it look good? Good. You have a map. Sadly, it's not much more complicated than that when maps are being accepted. I mean, obviously, maps with severe flaws won't make it, but we still get maps that are kind of..."meh." in gameplay once in a while.


SG4 and Breeze Island, beyond being small maps, both had one thing in common: They are simple. Flat? Check. Details? Minimal. (aside from SG4 corn.) Some of the newer popular maps also follow this. Holiday resort? Rivers here and there, a couple hills...mostly flat. Valleyside University? Completely flat. Details in both? Minimal in comparison to many other maps. Teweran maps are great examples of detailed maps that aren't played often: The one exception being TSG2, likely the most popular detailed map, and the only real exception I can think of at this moment.

Regardless, it has always been to my understanding that excess amounts of trapdoors, slabs, and stairs is usually not good for a PvP oriented map: Many PvP servers I see tend to have more minimalistic approaches when dealing with PvP oriented game modes, even when their other stuff looks really shiny. Too much so? Maybe. But did I, as a player, enjoy it? Yes. Less of a headache for me to deal with.
And, of course, as you said, avoiding lag is good as well. Crops, vines, and anything that grows can be added to this list. Huge farms or large amounts of vines can cause problems from my experience.

Thank you for that very helpful, insightful post! I may as well copy and paste that into my main post, it was that awesome.

I never really thought much about how having lots of "stuff" around affects PvP, but I suppose it may affect highly competitive players like you. It is very clear though, that people do enjoy minimalist maps because it feels good to understand a map. I can solemnly swear that I have opened every single chest on Breeze Island at least twice, and every single chest on SG 4 at least once. That is a good feeling, and it makes people come back for more. I'd say there are two main reasons people enjoy a map: Because they win a lot on it, and because they know it by heart. You can never really get to know SG 2 they way you can SG 4.

Though after playing on Memory of Earth and Wasteland, (Both removed!) I totally know what you mean with the not-knowing-where-to-go. I hate running away from a team on a new map and having to absorb a lot of detail about my surroundings just to avoid death. I never know if I can run in a building if it looks broken but it appears to have furniture scattered everywhere. Same with Solar Frost and Remnant. Remnant has a truly awful cornucopia, but I think if it was simplified just a little the map would get voted a lot more. Nobody appreciates all the stone walls sticking out of the ground and all the random stairs everywhere. Also, you can just hide under the center of corn and wait out deathmatch.

You mentioned that people like SG 4, Breeze Island, Valleyside, and Holiday Resort because they are minimalist, but I would like to point out that they are not the only minimalist maps. Avaricia, Trecherous Heights, Moonbase 9, Solar Frost, and Moonlight Lake are all fairly simple maps, but they are not as well liked as the four above. However, they are all fairly laggy. I would argue that having too much lag in a map makes people subconsciously like the map less, and they make people feel as though they have not played a "good game." It seems people are much more satisfied with their deaths, and with how the game has gone in general on maps that are more minimalist. Moonbase is notorious for crashing and having lag spikes, and I see people rage and make hackusations a lot more there than on Breeze Island.

It's actually funny how many people have made videos that start out with "Hello Youtube! We are playing some more MCSG today on Breeze Island... I have no idea why I chose to record here but we are doing it anyway. Let's go to corn..." Ok so you chose to record here and you have no idea why? That probably because you know it's a crappy map but deep down you enjoy it because you know it so well, it's minimalist, and it doesn't lag. It's exactly the same reason Americans walk into McDonalds every day and say "I have no idea why I am eating this crap. I'm just gonna do it cause it feels right."

 

[KorStonesword]

I'm sorry but you must have a god-awful PC. My PC can barely run any game that renders models in 3-dimension excluding Minecraft (and has problems with more advanced 2D games as well) , runs MC at 25-30 FPS without optifine, and I barely ever have any lag on pretty much all of the maps on MCSG. I may have to turn my render distance down a little, but I can usually hold a solid 40 FPS with optifine.

 

[John jennings]

I agree as well.
I have a pretty decent computer and even I get a little laggy on mortal skies.

 

[Bcuzimbored1243]

I love all these maps except mortal skies ._.

 

[KorStonesword]

I love all these maps except mortal skies ._.

Mortal skies doesn't love you either.

Because it's an inanimate object.

*cough*