First-Time Permaban for Hackers

[jonnysurvives]

I disagree. my perm-ban story is this: I hacked about 14 months ago, now. i was banned temporarily twice for it, one on nbroski, and another on my alt: sammyb055. about two months ago, i was temp-banned for four days for cursing. i bypassed it, which i'm aware is against the rules. i did this for one game as my clan React begged me to participate in a scrim with Republic. they found out it was me and thus i was perm-banned. Bypassing a curse ban. had it not been for the hack bans, i was told, i would not have been perm-banned for this. hackers deserve a clean slate. i regret the time i hacked and loathe those who do now; sometimes people come out of it. being permanently banned for hacking is not fair. ALTHOUGH, it would be fair to deal a 2 month ban immediately. i'd say that in many scenarios, this is enough for a player to stop hacking. at this point, later, they may return to the servers if they see fit. otherwise, that is one player who will NEVER get to play due to one mistake. Long bans immediately would, in my opinion, be fair. permanent ones, however, are almost never fair through my eyes.

But would you have hacked in the first place if you knew there was zero tolerance for hackers?

 

[inconceivable81]

Yeah, no second chances! The hackers should get ONE CHANCE. Not two, since then everyone can hack until you get banned and gets your second chance.

You look like one of those ignorant people who doesn't know about unfair bans. If everyone was banned first time for hacks, we would have about 1000+ unfair permanent bans by now.

Also, I disagree with the current system. Giving a tiny ban, and then a permanent ban makes no sense. I agree with the first ban being 7 days, that makes sense for a first offence. Second offence, however, should be around 3-4 months, and then the 3rd offence can be a permanent ban. This system would make much more sense as the amount of unfair bans is on the rise with more ban-hungry mods joining us every day, which means that if you hacked in the past, then you have had just 1 chance with a slight delay (the second ban will come unfairly), and quite good players are most likely to be banned twice unfairly, unless they are friends with Dave or another Admin, which will save them even if they hack. People that Admins dislike get 0 chances, because all Admins do these days is record someone playing, say that it is aimbot with regen hacks, and tell the other Admins to not unban. MCSG is becoming a lot like an oligarchy, with about 6 people with power, some of whom are just corrupt.

 

[jonnysurvives]

You look like one of those ignorant people who doesn't know about unfair bans. If everyone was banned first time for hacks, we would have about 1000+ unfair permanent bans by now.

Also, I disagree with the current system. Giving a tiny ban, and then a permanent ban makes no sense. I agree with the first ban being 7 days, that makes sense for a first offence. Second offence, however, should be around 3-4 months, and then the 3rd offence can be a permanent ban. This system would make much more sense as the amount of unfair bans is on the rise with more ban-hungry mods joining us every day, which means that if you hacked in the past, then you have had just 1 chance with a slight delay (the second ban will come unfairly), and quite good players are most likely to be banned twice unfairly, unless they are friends with Dave or another Admin, which will save them even if they hack. People that Admins dislike get 0 chances, because all Admins do these days is record someone playing, say that it is aimbot with regen hacks, and tell the other Admins to not unban. MCSG is becoming a lot like an oligarchy, with about 6 people with power, some of whom are just corrupt.

2 chances? There are enough hackers as it is, thanks. In the OP I said this would only apply to obvious hackers, not ambiguous cases.

 

[Cat_On_A_Poptart]

Could be a good idea, but there is a reason they only get temp banned. Maybe some people don't know hacking is illegal here, so they do it anyways (I know probably 99% of people who play here would know hacking is illegal, but you never know), and plus everybody deserves a second chance.

 

[inconceivable81]

2 chances? There are enough hackers as it is, thanks. In the OP I said this would only apply to obvious hackers, not ambiguous cases.

You realise that "obvious" is a term that varies from person to person. According to most mods that I have talked to, no ban is gone through with unless the evidence is "obvious". So thanks, but an unfair 7-day ban was enough for me with the "obvious" evidence, and I do not feel like being perma banned unfairly just because the evidence is "obvious". Please think before you say things like that.

Also, it is very easy to record a good player do well, and it will most likely look like hacks, especially to our Admins, since none of them are good at PvP, so the evidence will be "obvious" and it will be another good player down the drain. The scale of "obvious"-ity is not in the Oxford English Dictionary, so don't be stupid, a first time permanent ban is just plain dumb.

 

[Tacoface1234]

Moved to feature suggestions.

Also, it is very easy to record a good player do well, and it will most likely look like hacks, especially to our Admins, since none of them are good at PvP, so the evidence will be "obvious" and it will be another good player down the drain.

I understand your frustrations given your history, and I am familiar with your agenda as you do not hesitate to remind your fellow forumers of it. While I may disagree, you aren't violating any rules or regulations by spreading it, and you can believe whatever you like. Despite that, the quote above is simply not acceptable. Spreading rumors with little to no basis is just going to cause trouble.

I'm loving the discussion on the topic, but let's try to keep our points relevant and factual. Radical assumptions aren't going to help any discussion at all.

don't be stupid, a first time permanent ban is just plain dumb.

No need for that either. Treat others with respect, even if differences of opinion occur, otherwise we aren't going to get anywhere.

 

[jonnysurvives]

Could be a good idea, but there is a reason they only get temp banned. Maybe some people don't know hacking is illegal here, so they do it anyways (I know probably 99% of people who play here would know hacking is illegal, but you never know), and plus everybody deserves a second chance.

When is hacking ever allowed? In order to find the hacked clients you'd have to know what you're looking for >.>

I'm not sure everyone does deserve a second chance... yes, we all make mistakes but it's unfair on those who have to suffer from them imo. It's not like it's a hacking is a heat of the moment decision either, it's something you do over a period of time which for me makes it unforgivable. Also, please bear in mind that the situation on EU is 10x worse than it is on US, and something needs to to be done. :3

You realise that "obvious" is a term that varies from person to person. According to most mods that I have talked to, no ban is gone through with unless the evidence is "obvious". So thanks, but an unfair 7-day ban was enough for me with the "obvious" evidence, and I do not feel like being perma banned unfairly just because the evidence is "obvious". Please think before you say things like that.

Also, it is very easy to record a good player do well, and it will most likely look like hacks, especially to our Admins, since none of them are good at PvP, so the evidence will be "obvious" and it will be another good player down the drain. The scale of "obvious"-ity is not in the Oxford English Dictionary, so don't be stupid, a first time permanent ban is just plain dumb.

Sorry, but how is it plain dumb? And do you mind not condescending to me? As I mentioned in the OP, I'm talking about the type of players that get recorded water walking, hitting people while afk / in a chest / multiple people at once and regen hacking. There is no uncertainty in this kind of evidence.

Moved to feature suggestions.

K. I just put it in Survival Games Discussions because I thought it was more of a policy change than a feature :3

 

[Pikachu]

But would you have hacked in the first place if you knew there was zero tolerance for hackers?

Honestly... I may have. in the last 11 months, of course not. I wouldn't anyways. but back then, I was so bad. I had a 5 fps computer, was terrible at pvp, didn't understand the ins and outs of the hunger games, etc. I just wish that after a year, they would have pardoned me. I still understand, however, that they must draw the line somewhere. I do, although, thoroughly miss playing on these servers that I happened to spend money on. I wont be flaming about this though. I just must say that zero tolerance or not, the first-time-permban idea is not fair. I still support me own theory of long bans for certain reasons. still though, I respect your opinion.

 

[Pikachu]

I agree, except that I don't think hackers using different types of client should determine how long the ban is. Ok, a ban for Rei's minimap should be shorter than one for regen hacking, but players who use regen hacks and players that use forcefield both blatantly know what they're doing is wrong and against the rules, it probably just depends on which client they found first.

Well... I'm just saying if you are good, taking out someone with force field is actually not too hard. as long as you are good at wielding secondaries and have good routes. BUT a regen hacker on the other hand, is nearly impossible to take out if they have installed a high quality client. In addition, Rei's minimap is allowed and is the only allowed minimap on the servers. a ban for cursing or bypassing the filter should certainly be shorter than any for hacks.
Edit: SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST ILY

 

[Tacoface1234]

Well... I'm just saying if you are good, taking out someone with force field is actually not too hard. as long as you are good at wielding secondaries and have good routes. BUT a regen hacker on the other hand, is nearly impossible to take out if they have installed a high quality client. In addition, Rei's minimap is allowed and is the only allowed minimap on the servers. a ban for cursing or bypassing the filter should certainly be shorter than any for hacks.
Edit: SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST ILY

Two things.

No double posting :3

Reis minimap is not allowed

 

[BlueHeron]

The problem with the system, is that it's not consistent. Spammers shouldn't be banned permanently on their first offense, but they should be given warning. By eliminating that final warning ban for hackers, the system becomes inconstant and confusing. And if you do get rid of the temp ban you make the system unfair for those who's 'crimes' don't deserve that much severity.

 

[Tacoface1234]

The problem with the system, is that it's not consistent. Spammers shouldn't be banned permanently on their first offense, but they should be given warning. By eliminating that final warning ban for hackers, the system becomes inconstant and confusing. And if you do get rid of the temp ban you make the system unfair for those who's 'crimes' don't deserve that much severity.

The system is pretty inconsistent as is. We have wildly varying punishments for different offenses, and there are actually a few that can get you perm banned on the first offense. It isn't really a big deal though, since everything is organized quite well information wise.