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SURVIVAL GAMES Why I think SG is unbalanced and my suggestions to how to balance it.

Wulturnys

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I have been playing sg since middle of 2015 and I have seen a lot of stuff that were really unfair in my games. Id also like to announce that I will assume in this thread that there is no more cheaters / less cheaters than before and that there is no more Bhoppers / people using kill aura / 6 blocks reach.
Teams :
I think teaming should be forbidden and I think that team SG gamemode can help a lot to balance the situation with teaming. As I said I assume that there is no more obvious cheaters or any at all. If we take that as a factor I think that teaming should be bannable because a person needs to be way more skilled than both of the teamers (not talking about 3 teams or above) to beat them, there are plenty of op strategies that teamers can abuse. The main one is just killing you, however if you manage to escape we are in year 2020 and everyone has learned how to cut people while chasing them / or how to boost. You need to be better stacked which means that you have to loot different side of map and also you have to know the whole map which a lot of players don't, in order to get stacked enough if they are skilled, lets say they are not skilled and you are better than both of them and know the map better, but they found a stone sword which is a common thing to find in a tier 1 chest and they started boosting on you and its not even 2 minutes into the game. Sure you can run but you have no loot because they started boosting on you after one chest. They will sooner or later kill you for sure and the only chance you have is to pray for a chest to give you a good loot. In this case I explained why you have to be at the same time more skilled and you have to know the map very well, there is the third case - you are more skilled and know the map, but as I said its 2020 and everyone knows the most played maps so they have 20 arrows each, and you can't fight them, your only chance is bow but they are running, so it comes down to this there is a 25% that you are better stacked, know the map, and you are more skilled and your only way to survive vs a team is to bowspam. And a chance of winning a team in deathmatch is very low because of how small the space is so teams could just bowspam you to death or boost at you easier. There it is you have literally 25% to win against a decent team which is like 90% of the teams nowadays. However I still understand that playing with friends is a lot more fun and I prefer to play with friends which is why I suggest adding Team SG like on Mineplex, where teaming will be allowed, Mineplex adding team sg helped solving and balancing out sg a lot and even the player base has grown. I understand its hard to invent a thing like this so quickly but I recommend you to try inventing this or at least letting people vote if they like the idea or not.
Deathmatch:
I also think that deathmatch is also not balanced because of bowspam. I understand it is a skill you need to learn but bowspaming through the whole deathmatch is not so skilled. I think that the best solution is reducing bow damage manually - however im not a developer so I don't know if this is actually possible but I think that if it's possible to reduce bow damage for like 40% - 50% at maximum in deathmatch only. I don't think that bow is op in the game itself, its just that in deathmatch there is not much space and there is no way to engage if someone has a stack of arrows and decide to spam you. By reducing that damage you could actually stand a chance against someone without having a bow or any arrows by running and tanking all the arrows then waiting to regen. But this could be abused aswell so what I recommend actually is to the first minute of deathmatch the bow's damage should be reduced by 50%, then after the first minute it should fall down to 35% because running and regenerating can be abused too.
Team Tags / Inventing team wins into stats:
If you for some reason (which is understandable because its hard to invent) decide not to remove teams, I would recommend team tags. With having team tags people can know if someone is teaming and they could cross team with someone else in the chat without the other person having to think twice about the idea. My idea is that teams should have the same symbol and they're whole name changed into same color, and also this could help with boosting - if someone won with a teammate they should get a team win. This can help a lot with people who are trying to boost leaderboards with a help of teammate. A person can only rod they're teammate and if the last person remaining is they're teammate they both get a team win. Its pretty simple and I think it should help. However if a person is caught teaming and not cross teaming via chat they should recieve a 1 day ban as a warning for what they are doing. How a person should get a team tag? In my opinion it doesn't really matter if its a simple command like: /team create [example] /team invite [player]
or a more fancy way like a stick which when you both hit yourselves with you get the badge alongside your name and a color which presents your team.
Thanks for reading and feel free to add your opinons about the stuff I said.
 

KiDD

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Ive got one : no bows and rods, no fns either just Swords

lets Go
 

4non

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i highly doubt any changes to regular MCSG will be made as the core gameplay has remained the same since 2012. practice makes perfect, taking down teams isn't impossible in the slightest. learn choke points on each map. idk man.
 

Wulturnys

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i highly doubt any changes to regular MCSG will be made as the core gameplay has remained the same since 2012. practice makes perfect, taking down teams isn't impossible in the slightest. learn choke points on each map. idk man.
It's not my personal problem rather the unpopular opinion and my attempt at making the server itself better because it used to be my favorite and I want to make a good change for it.
 

tolgacam1907

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I am not a fan of changing the game itself by reducing the bow damage, but I feel like they could make arrow something hard to get from chests, so nobody ends up with 64 arrows at the deathmatch.
 

REVER5E

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Teams and gamemode separation:
They mentioned that they plan on adding a queue system for Solos and Teams (which will be unrestricted).

A possible solution would be to reduce the amount of arrows people get from chests. Cut flint/feather/arrows chance of spawning in t1/t2 by 50-75%, I always have more than a stack of arrows in a regular SG game and all it does is encourage bowspamming in DM.

DM:
Cut down the amount of arrows to 16-24 max once the player gets teleported, make custom arenas with cover that wouldn't promote constant bowspamming or would at least make bowing more tactical. Damage reduction isn't a bad idea, but it also has a few problems. Picture this: you destroyed a guy in melee and you know for sure he's 1 shot (100% damage full charge) and you'll have to hit him 3 or 4 times in order to finish him off. Would that be fun? Absolutely not. Imagine you have no sword and all you have is bow and some arrows. How would you defend yourself? Punch your opponents to death? And there's a lot more issues with this that I didn't mention here.

I've also seen an idea to remove bows from DM altogether, but that would just give teams a huge advantage. You'd have to be good at melee to do anything against them, and that only favours a melee-based playstyle. Bow mains (not sure how to call them) or people that don't rely on their melee skills most of the time and instead prefer to use their surroundings/secondaries as an advantage would totally see this as a big issue.

Team tags:
Too complex and unnecessary. Imagine someone who hadn't played the server since 2014 joins the server with his or her friend and wants to play some good old SG, and then they get punished for not having a TEAM TAG on for 1 DAY. This also applies to people that don't understand English/have never played the server before and they'd have no idea what they did wrong as well.

I also don't understand how people are supposed to cross-team ingame. Picture this: you see someone being chased by a hacker mid-game and the player being chased is super low. You want to help him/her and you both would have to write a long command/somehow click each other ingame in order to not get punished for not having a team tag. Not to mention the fact that if you manage to win against the hacker, both of you will only get a TEAM WIN, besides playing solo the entire time. There's just way too many issues with this.

The idea of highlighting teams isn't bad, but you can still usually get the idea who's teaming and who does not if you play long enough.

Boosting/team wins:
This is the best idea in this thread so far. I can totally see how separating team and solo wins would encourage competitive players to play solo, but there's also a question on how you plan to enforce it/see if they truce with someone. Imagine this: you want to get boosted in solo wins leaderboard and ask your friend to truce with you in these games.

Your friend can do a lot of things to hide the fact that you and him/her are teaming/trucing:
  • Basically never fight or be close to each other throughout the game and then die of fall damage/walking into lava/whatever else he or she can think of.
  • Sharing gear: you agree to put some armour/crafting materials in a chest on a map that you both know, then you loot it and leave some gear in that chest again. You never meet ingame and it's almost impossible to prove that you truced or teamed with him.
  • Whenever you need help, you just ask him to meet you in a certain spot on a map and pretend to fight him/rod him back/bow him a couple of times, and then bow both of them at the same time or just retreat and let your friend finish the player off. Again, literally impossible to prove that you truced.
 
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JUST LEARN HOW TO PVP AND MAYBE U WILL BE BETTER
 

Wulturnys

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Teams and gamemode separation:
They mentioned that they plan on adding a queue system for Solos and Teams (which will be unrestricted).

A possible solution would be to reduce the amount of arrows people get from chests. Cut flint/feather/arrows chance of spawning in t1/t2 by 50-75%, I always have more than a stack of arrows in a regular SG game and all it does is encourage bowspamming in DM.

DM:
Cut down the amount of arrows to 16-24 max once the player gets teleported, make custom arenas with cover that wouldn't promote constant bowspamming or would at least make bowing more tactical. Damage reduction isn't a bad idea, but it also has a few problems. Picture this: you destroyed a guy in melee and you know for sure he's 1 shot (100% damage full charge) and you'll have to hit him 3 or 4 times in order to finish him off. Would that be fun? Absolutely not. Imagine you have no sword and all you have is bow and some arrows. How would you defend yourself? Punch your opponents to death? And there's a lot more issues with this that I didn't mention here.

I've also seen an idea to remove bows from DM altogether, but that would just give teams a huge advantage. You'd have to be good at melee to do anything against them, and that only favours a melee-based playstyle. Bow mains (not sure how to call them) or people that don't rely on their melee skills most of the time and instead prefer to use their surroundings/secondaries as an advantage would totally see this as a big issue.

Team tags:
Too complex and unnecessary. Imagine someone who hadn't played the server since 2014 joins the server with his or her friend and wants to play some good old SG, and then they get punished for not having a TEAM TAG on for 1 DAY. This also applies to people that don't understand English/have never played the server before and they'd have no idea what they did wrong as well.

I also don't understand how people are supposed to cross-team ingame. Picture this: you see someone being chased by a hacker mid-game and the player being chased is super low. You want to help him/her and you both would have to write a long command/somehow click each other ingame in order to not get punished for not having a team tag. Not to mention the fact that if you manage to win against the hacker, both of you will only get a TEAM WIN, besides playing solo the entire time. There's just way too many issues with this.

The idea of highlighting teams isn't bad, but you can still usually get the idea who's teaming and who does not if you play long enough.

Boosting/team wins:
This is the best idea in this thread so far. I can totally see how separating team and solo wins would encourage competitive players to play solo, but there's also a question on how you plan to enforce it/see if they truce with someone. Imagine this: you want to get boosted in solo wins leaderboard and ask your friend to truce with you in these games.

Your friend can do a lot of things to hide the fact that you and him/her are teaming/trucing:
  • Basically never fight or be close to each other throughout the game and then die of fall damage/walking into lava/whatever else he or she can think of.
  • Sharing gear: you agree to put some armour/crafting materials in a chest on a map that you both know, then you loot it and leave some gear in that chest again. You never meet ingame and it's almost impossible to prove that you truced or teamed with him.
  • Whenever you need help, you just ask him to meet you in a certain spot on a map and pretend to fight him/rod him back/bow him a couple of times, and then bow both of them at the same time or just retreat and let your friend finish the player off. Again, literally impossible to prove that you truced.
First of all I really like your opinions, I think that you are completely right with separate gamemodes. About the loot, I think its already balanced because you have to know the map and practice taking a good route which is also a skill itself. Removing bows from deathmatch is a terrible idea in my opinion, because its also a skill that has to be learned maybe its easier than learning how to use sword and rod but Its still a skill. About team tags - people who are OGs and joined to enjoy some old SG is not a viable excuse. First of all patches exist to fix up mistakes from past, therefore SG can be patched too, nothing can stay out there forever. For the people who don't understand English its a pretty reasonable thing not to have this feature, tho I think if they get warned they will understand via google translate or somehow that what they're doing is not allowed. Hiding the fact that you are teaming is simply dealt by staff members. If someone gets really high on leaderboards they will get caught sooner or later, and then deserve a permanent ban or atleast something longer than just a 1 day ban and stats reset.
 

Stanenberg

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Why does everyone get so mad at teaming? Get good or randy team against stacked/good teams...
 

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