thoughts about the migrant crisis

[arsenal]

They are fleeing because they are in war.

This is not like some poor country with a health crisis where you can just send medical aid to help.
Yes but these people need areas to live. We could go in and set up camps instead of letting them into our countries. Yes, we would have to defend them against ISIS but it's much better than having our society undermined by radical Islamists.



I am not saying that is impossible to give them medical aid, food, and what not but you aren't going to be able to drop them Prot XXXXXXX diamond armor so that they can't get killed. Sorry, while this would be a nice solution, it simply isn't possible.
This is definitely possible. I don't see a single problem with it? Just deploy a large swath of troops and set up camps for people to live in while ISIS is being fought.
Anyways most of the migrants actually come from Africa so ISIS isn't really THAT big of a deal

So you want to send troops in to protect the refugees? This makes no sense. Why would we want to give ISIS easy access to American's. No reason to put their lives at risk when we could just let the refugees into our country instead. Yes, you will probably argue the opposite that refugees give ISIS easy access to Americans as well, but we can do our best to screen them even if we can't be 100% sure, and the refugee crisis is yet to be at fault for a terrorist attack contrary to what some believe. There are always going to be risks, and whether or not we let in refugees will have very little effect on the odds of a terror attack in my opinion. However, putting American troops in a war zone will definitely put American lives at risk, while keeping the refugees still at some risk as well. Instead of making ISIS have to plan complex systems to try to attack us, we would be coming to them. Really bad idea.

In my opinion, if we get scared and keep the refugees out that would be just letting the terrorists win. They want us to be scared and to effect our lives. I am not saying we shouldn't take any precautions, but we shouldn't give up our key principals either.

As for the Africa thing, there are refugee issues all over the world. South America has an issue of its own. I think the thread creator was referring to the Syrian ones as they are the most controversial, but he can correct me if I am wrong.

That being said, thank you for at least doing some research. A lot of people make arguments on this topic based on something that Fox News, Donald Trump, or some other mislead person said that is simply pure fiction. Not going to be calling out any names, but you can find a proper example of that on this thread. Good job demonsushi for giving them the facts. Don't feel bad though if you are the person that did it, you are 1 out of many many thousands.

 

[alienmonster123]

They are fleeing because they are in war.
Actually most of the migrants are coming from African countries.



That means in order to help them in their own country we need to remove ISIS, which we already are allocating our resources towards doing.
I concede this point. Currently a large percentage of our total active military forces are being used to combat the Islamic State.



This is not like some poor country with a health crisis where you can just send medical aid to help.
Yes but these people need areas to live. We could go in and set up camps instead of letting them into our countries. Yes, we would have to defend them against ISIS but it's much better than having our society undermined by radical Islamists.



I am not saying that is impossible to give them medical aid, food, and what not but you aren't going to be able to drop them Prot XXXXXXX diamond armor so that they can't get killed. Sorry, while this would be a nice solution, it simply isn't possible.
This is definitely possible. I don't see a single problem with it? Just deploy a large swath of troops and set up camps for people to live in while ISIS is being fought.
Anyways most of the migrants actually come from Africa so ISIS isn't really THAT big of a deal


None of those facts are based in reality. The mass-rape in Cologne was not from refugees but from legally admitted Moroccans and Algerians.
This is the exact point I was trying to making, most of the "migrants" are coming from Africa/Turkey and not Syria/Iraq.



Also, most reports from that incident where both not credible and also over embellished. They have not increased crime, they are in fact less likely to commit crime. Sweden has had a rape issue long before the migrant crisis. People seem to want to blame someone, and those "Dark skin southerners" are the perfect scapegoat.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/05/ten-year-old-boy-brutally-raped-by-iraqi-migrant-at-pool-in-vienna/

http://www.vienna.at/hausverbot-fuer-fluechtlinge-in-hallenbad-im-bezirk-korneuburg/

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/15/sex-assault-rapes-at-european-swimming

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/21/yet-another-migrant-on-child-sex-attack-at-a-european-indoor-pool/

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-belgium-idUKKCN0V30ZI

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/belgium-mayor-seeks-ban-male-refugees-pool-after-incident-10-year-old-girl-1539930

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN0V30VG

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/15/german-town-bans-male-refugees-from-swimming-pool

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417166/German-city-bans-migrants-nightclubs-women-report-sexually-assaulted-toilets-slipped-date-rape-drugs-drinks.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/danish-nightclubs-ban-reufgees-using-language-rules-after-sexual-harassment-complaints-a6821566.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395390/The-Arabic-gang-rape-Taharrush-phenomenon-sees-women-surrounded-groups-men-crowds-sexually-assaulted-spread-Europe.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2724658/Were-not-leaving-Yazidis-refusing-come-mountain-300-women-stolen-ISIS-impregnated-smash-blond-bloodline.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3391075/Why-Germany-t-face-truth-migrant-sex-attacks-SUE-REID-finds-nation-denial-wave-horrific-attacks-reported-Europe.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/635359/migrant-sex-attacks-Germany-Dortmund-refugees-Merkel

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390168/Migrant-rape-fears-spread-Europe-Women-told-not-night-assaults-carried-Sweden-Finland-Germany-Austria-Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html

https://www.intellihub.com/schools-in-germany-order-girls-to-cover-up-to-avoid-being-attacked-by-muslim-refugees/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249667/Germany-state-SIEGE-Merkel-cheered-opened-floodgates-migrants-gangs-men-roaming-streets-young-German-women-told-cover-mood-s-changing.html

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/grade-school-girls-in-germany-ordered-to-cover-up-so-as-not-to-provoke-muslim-refugees/

http://www.thelocal.de/20151230/two-thirds-of-germans-expect-terror-attack-in-2016

Earth hour cancelled due to migrant rape: Swedish town refuses to turn lights off to protect women from attacks
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ghts-protect-women-attacks.html#ixzz45VUCEOYM

Iraqi migrant rapes a 10-year-old boy at a swimming pool in Vienna and tells police it was a 'sexual emergency' because he hadn't had sex in months
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mergency-hadn-t-sex-months.html#ixzz45VfiIXV3

and there is so much more where that came from...



The refugees are not the problem.
Muslim Europe: the demographic time bomb transforming our continent
The EU is facing an era of vast social change, reports Adrian Michaels, and few politicians are taking notice
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994047/Muslim-Europe-the-demographic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html

Soaring asylum numbers force Sweden to cut costs, borrow more
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden-forecast-idUSKCN0SG0I220151022

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Channel Four (2006): 31% of younger British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified compared to 14% of those over 45.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/publications/living apart together - jan 07.pdf

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/06/32-of-palestinians-support-infanticide/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4053251,00.html

16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1275/Islam/article/detail/1619036/2013/04/22/Zestien-procent-moslimjongens-vindt-terrorisme-aanvaardbaar.dhtml

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism#cite_note-29
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=97

Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

ew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

BBC Radio (2015): 45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam".
http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 19% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified in order to make Sharia the law in the United States (66% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Sun (2015: Following Nov. 2015 attacks in Paris, 1 in 4 young Muslims in Britain (and 1 in 5 overall) said they sympathize with those who fight for ISIS.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6758207/1-in-5-British-Muslims-have-sympathy-for-jihadis-in-poll.html
"Astonishing" two in three British Muslims would NOT give police terror tip-offs

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/65...Muslims-would-NOT-give-police-terror-tip-offs'


Well we obviously have a problem.




The people who did the Belgium attacks were not refugees. I quote the guardian here, and I will provide a link
" all of the known Paris attackers were EU nationals, either French or Belgian, who found it relatively easy to travel back and forth to and within Europe without major problems even when they were registered as terrorism suspects in the Schengen or national databases"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...er-border-checks-in-response-to-paris-attacks
I can't really tell if you're talking about the Paris attacks or Brussels attacks but anyways... Here's a few sources that disagree with that article - they were nationals, but also Muslim and linked to the Islamic State. the issue is that they're becoming islamically radicalized within their own country. This blatantly illustrates the problem with Islam and how radical strains are not peaceful at all.

Paris attacks:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34832512

Brussels attacks:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35879141
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/24/world/europe/brussels-attack.html?_r=0
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-suspect-in-brussels-attacks-is-sought-20160323-story.html

stop! facts are islamophobic. /s

 

[demonsushi]

They are fleeing because they are in war.
Actually most of the migrants are coming from African countries.



That means in order to help them in their own country we need to remove ISIS, which we already are allocating our resources towards doing.
I concede this point. Currently a large percentage of our total active military forces are being used to combat the Islamic State.



This is not like some poor country with a health crisis where you can just send medical aid to help.
Yes but these people need areas to live. We could go in and set up camps instead of letting them into our countries. Yes, we would have to defend them against ISIS but it's much better than having our society undermined by radical Islamists.



I am not saying that is impossible to give them medical aid, food, and what not but you aren't going to be able to drop them Prot XXXXXXX diamond armor so that they can't get killed. Sorry, while this would be a nice solution, it simply isn't possible.
This is definitely possible. I don't see a single problem with it? Just deploy a large swath of troops and set up camps for people to live in while ISIS is being fought.
Anyways most of the migrants actually come from Africa so ISIS isn't really THAT big of a deal


None of those facts are based in reality. The mass-rape in Cologne was not from refugees but from legally admitted Moroccans and Algerians.
This is the exact point I was trying to making, most of the "migrants" are coming from Africa/Turkey and not Syria/Iraq.



Also, most reports from that incident where both not credible and also over embellished. They have not increased crime, they are in fact less likely to commit crime. Sweden has had a rape issue long before the migrant crisis. People seem to want to blame someone, and those "Dark skin southerners" are the perfect scapegoat.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/05/ten-year-old-boy-brutally-raped-by-iraqi-migrant-at-pool-in-vienna/

http://www.vienna.at/hausverbot-fuer-fluechtlinge-in-hallenbad-im-bezirk-korneuburg/

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/15/sex-assault-rapes-at-european-swimming

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/21/yet-another-migrant-on-child-sex-attack-at-a-european-indoor-pool/

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-belgium-idUKKCN0V30ZI

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/belgium-mayor-seeks-ban-male-refugees-pool-after-incident-10-year-old-girl-1539930

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN0V30VG

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/15/german-town-bans-male-refugees-from-swimming-pool

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417166/German-city-bans-migrants-nightclubs-women-report-sexually-assaulted-toilets-slipped-date-rape-drugs-drinks.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/danish-nightclubs-ban-reufgees-using-language-rules-after-sexual-harassment-complaints-a6821566.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395390/The-Arabic-gang-rape-Taharrush-phenomenon-sees-women-surrounded-groups-men-crowds-sexually-assaulted-spread-Europe.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2724658/Were-not-leaving-Yazidis-refusing-come-mountain-300-women-stolen-ISIS-impregnated-smash-blond-bloodline.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3391075/Why-Germany-t-face-truth-migrant-sex-attacks-SUE-REID-finds-nation-denial-wave-horrific-attacks-reported-Europe.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/635359/migrant-sex-attacks-Germany-Dortmund-refugees-Merkel

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390168/Migrant-rape-fears-spread-Europe-Women-told-not-night-assaults-carried-Sweden-Finland-Germany-Austria-Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html

https://www.intellihub.com/schools-in-germany-order-girls-to-cover-up-to-avoid-being-attacked-by-muslim-refugees/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249667/Germany-state-SIEGE-Merkel-cheered-opened-floodgates-migrants-gangs-men-roaming-streets-young-German-women-told-cover-mood-s-changing.html

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/grade-school-girls-in-germany-ordered-to-cover-up-so-as-not-to-provoke-muslim-refugees/

http://www.thelocal.de/20151230/two-thirds-of-germans-expect-terror-attack-in-2016

Earth hour cancelled due to migrant rape: Swedish town refuses to turn lights off to protect women from attacks
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ghts-protect-women-attacks.html#ixzz45VUCEOYM

Iraqi migrant rapes a 10-year-old boy at a swimming pool in Vienna and tells police it was a 'sexual emergency' because he hadn't had sex in months
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mergency-hadn-t-sex-months.html#ixzz45VfiIXV3

and there is so much more where that came from...



The refugees are not the problem.
Muslim Europe: the demographic time bomb transforming our continent
The EU is facing an era of vast social change, reports Adrian Michaels, and few politicians are taking notice
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994047/Muslim-Europe-the-demographic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html

Soaring asylum numbers force Sweden to cut costs, borrow more
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden-forecast-idUSKCN0SG0I220151022

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Channel Four (2006): 31% of younger British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified compared to 14% of those over 45.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/publications/living apart together - jan 07.pdf

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/06/32-of-palestinians-support-infanticide/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4053251,00.html

16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1275/Islam/article/detail/1619036/2013/04/22/Zestien-procent-moslimjongens-vindt-terrorisme-aanvaardbaar.dhtml

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism#cite_note-29
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=97

Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

ew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

BBC Radio (2015): 45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam".
http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 19% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified in order to make Sharia the law in the United States (66% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Sun (2015: Following Nov. 2015 attacks in Paris, 1 in 4 young Muslims in Britain (and 1 in 5 overall) said they sympathize with those who fight for ISIS.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6758207/1-in-5-British-Muslims-have-sympathy-for-jihadis-in-poll.html
"Astonishing" two in three British Muslims would NOT give police terror tip-offs

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/65...Muslims-would-NOT-give-police-terror-tip-offs'


Well we obviously have a problem.




The people who did the Belgium attacks were not refugees. I quote the guardian here, and I will provide a link
" all of the known Paris attackers were EU nationals, either French or Belgian, who found it relatively easy to travel back and forth to and within Europe without major problems even when they were registered as terrorism suspects in the Schengen or national databases"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...er-border-checks-in-response-to-paris-attacks
I can't really tell if you're talking about the Paris attacks or Brussels attacks but anyways... Here's a few sources that disagree with that article - they were nationals, but also Muslim and linked to the Islamic State. the issue is that they're becoming islamically radicalized within their own country. This blatantly illustrates the problem with Islam and how radical strains are not peaceful at all.

Paris attacks:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34832512

Brussels attacks:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35879141
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/24/world/europe/brussels-attack.html?_r=0
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-suspect-in-brussels-attacks-is-sought-20160323-story.html

a lot of those sources are not credible in I'm not saying you are wrong because a lot are from reputable sources, but try to stay within newspapers like NYT, WSJ, forbes, CNN, fox etc. Especially those polls, like you cannot possibly believe those are true. I can't deny them, because I don't really know anything, I'm a kid, but they just cannot possibly be right.

You are correct that a lot of migrants are from Africa, but I don't see why that is a problem. I am a migrant the same why they are. I moved from Australia to the United States. Then I moved again from Chicago to New York. Then I moved from New York to London. Why am I different?

I think you are lumping together a lot of different people by saying ISIS isn't a problem; I think the discussion was revolving more around the immediate crisis of Syrians and Iraqis fleeing their country because of the war is going on.

Also, you are right, I misspoke, I meant to say the Paris attacks on the article I used, but the point still remains, and my point still stands. You are bunching together two very different groups of people, and treating them as the same. You are not able to get rid of Muslims; I'm sorry it's not possible, and I personally wouldn't want it that way either. There are not a lot of people like the ones you fear. If they live in Belgium, and are from Belgium, they are Belgian. Same goes for Dylann Roof. Except no one says all white people are psycho murderers. Sort of double standard, considering that on US soil, since 9/11, more people have been killed in mass shootings like this then muslim terrorist related activities, including events like the Boston Bombings which are again a very different topic.

I myself have had too many personal experiences with these people to ever believe what you are saying, despite the many many links you have posted, but thank you for providing those.

stop! facts are islamophobic. /s

Not sure anyone said that. Please do be respectful though. Now point in hating anyone around the world, you don't know them and most are beautiful and respectable.

I am going to go read all of those articles now.

 

[Gustav Mahikano]

Tenebrous America and Russia are pretty much the only nations actually considering sending ground troops to subdue Isis, believing that the air strikes may not be enough. Even then, they've been sitting on the fence for ages because they don't want to lose their own countrymen if ISIS can be stopped another way.

I'm wondering though, what makes you think they're not only going to send in their own troops (and some labourers), but also stick around to create a camp for so many people? The displacement of Syrian refugees is being considered the largest humanitarian crisis in history; not only is it unlikely and almost impossible to set up those camps, but what's to stop ISIS from just destroying them in the near future? That would be an even greater waste of resources and human life, both refugee and Western.

For the record, the media is always going to target people of an Islamic background - the majority of your articles are stories of 1 person doing 1 horrible act. That is irrespective of the majority; I'm not going to say that the refugees in Europe have increased or decreased rape and other crime, because I haven't done my research. But the media will always blow anything out of proportion and focus on any scapegoat that can give them a story. If a white man mollests a child, no-one cares. If a muslim refugee does it, they make some cash. To generalise an entire people based on stories hand-picked by a biased media seems extremely unfair, especially given the fact that they're fleeing for their lives with nowhere to go.

 

[Giggums]

If a white man mollests a child, no-one cares. If a muslim refugee does it, they make some cash.

I almost clapped at this. This is a very good point.

 

[eetunixisaacjonnyleon]

I don't believe in turning those in need of aid away

 

[demonsushi]

[

Tenebrous America and Russia are pretty much the only nations actually considering sending ground troops to subdue Isis, believing that the air strikes may not be enough. Even then, they've been sitting on the fence for ages because they don't want to lose their own countrymen if ISIS can be stopped another way.

I'm wondering though, what makes you think they're not only going to send in their own troops (and some labourers), but also stick around to create a camp for so many people? The displacement of Syrian refugees is being considered the largest humanitarian crisis in history; not only is it unlikely and almost impossible to set up those camps, but what's to stop ISIS from just destroying them in the near future? That would be an even greater waste of resources and human life, both refugee and Western.

For the record, the media is always going to target people of an Islamic background - the majority of your articles are stories of 1 person doing 1 horrible act. That is irrespective of the majority; I'm not going to say that the refugees in Europe have increased or decreased rape and other crime, because I haven't done my research. But the media will always blow anything out of proportion and focus on any scapegoat that can give them a story. If a white man mollests a child, no-one cares. If a muslim refugee does it, they make some cash. To generalise an entire people based on stories hand-picked by a biased media seems extremely unfair, especially given the fact that they're fleeing for their lives with nowhere to go.

Amen sir well written.
Gustav for president 2k16

Also an interesting read if you have the time: http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/...ger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743.html

 

[alienmonster123]

Not sure anyone said that. Please do be respectful though. Now point in hating anyone around the world, you don't know them and most are beautiful and respectable.

I am going to go read all of those articles now.

1. the /s in the end meant sarcasm, so that's one thing.
2. "no point hating anyone in the world" i hate isis, al qaeda, religious extremists, pedophiles, murdered and such, does that make me a bad person ?? ?

3. i didnt really read the article, only really looked at the title, but if its about how there are more right wing extremists than muslim terrorirsts, then no Ultimate Fishing Rod Of Doom Good sherlock. tell me again the percentage of muslims in the usa ? ? ?

 

[demonsushi]

1. the /s in the end meant sarcasm, so that's one thing.
2. "no point hating anyone in the world" i hate isis, al qaeda, religious extremists, pedophiles, murdered and such, does that make me a bad person ?? ?

3. i didnt really read the article, only really looked at the title, but if its about how there are more right wing extremists than muslim terrorirsts, then no Ultimate Fishing Rod Of Doom Good sherlock. tell me again the percentage of muslims in the usa ? ? ?

lol not my point just an interesting read not what I was implying. And sorry didn't realize what /s meant. True you can hate those groups, but I still cannot do it. I don't know, I believe in loving in your fellow human and trying to change people.

As martin luther king said "Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can. Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that."

I know isis and al qaeda etc can seem like the worst people in the world, but hating them certainly won't make them any better.

Edit: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5 look at the murder statistics here, notice how the USA has a higher murder rate than pretty much every muslim country except for those at war, like Yemen and Iraq. Afghanistan has about the same number of murders per 100,000 people.

If you don't want to look at it, I'll list all the muslim countries with less murders per 100,000 and them more than the USA.

less: Indonesia, India (14% muslim), Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, UAE, Uzbekistan.
more: pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Yemen, Somalia.

Notice how it's pretty split? religion doesn't really play a factor.

 

[Tenebrous]

So you want to send troops in to protect the refugees? This makes no sense. Why would we want to give ISIS easy access to American's. No reason to put their lives at risk when we could just let the refugees into our country instead. Yes, you will probably argue the opposite that refugees give ISIS easy access to Americans as well, but we can do our best to screen them even if we can't be 100% sure, and the refugee crisis is yet to be at fault for a terrorist attack contrary to what some believe. There are always going to be risks, and whether or not we let in refugees will have very little effect on the odds of a terror attack in my opinion. However, putting American troops in a war zone will definitely put American lives at risk, while keeping the refugees still at some risk as well. Instead of making ISIS have to plan complex systems to try to attack us, we would be coming to them. Really bad idea.

In my opinion, if we get scared and keep the refugees out that would be just letting the terrorists win. They want us to be scared and to effect our lives. I am not saying we shouldn't take any precautions, but we shouldn't give up our key principals either.

As for the Africa thing, there are refugee issues all over the world. South America has an issue of its own. I think the thread creator was referring to the Syrian ones as they are the most controversial, but he can correct me if I am wrong.

That being said, thank you for at least doing some research. A lot of people make arguments on this topic based on something that Fox News, Donald Trump, or some other mislead person said that is simply pure fiction. Not going to be calling out any names, but you can find a proper example of that on this thread. Good job demonsushi for giving them the facts. Don't feel bad though if you are the person that did it, you are 1 out of many many thousands.

So you want to send troops in to protect the refugees? This makes no sense. Why would we want to give ISIS easy access to American's.
We need to set up camps in neighboring Islamic countries in order to house them. While that's happening we need to fight ISIS on the ground or use more strategic air strikes like we are doing currently.

No reason to put their lives at risk when we could just let the refugees into our country instead.
Refugees in our country are putting OUR lives at risk. See my response above, they are degrading society.

Yes, you will probably argue the opposite that refugees give ISIS easy access to Americans as well, but we can do our best to screen them even if we can't be 100% sure, and the refugee crisis is yet to be at fault for a terrorist attack contrary to what some believe.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Statistically speaking, near 97% of the recent terrorist attacks in Europe were done by Muslims. Now even if some of these Muslims were not coming directly from Islamic countries into European countries, the real issue comes when you look at how these people are radicalized. They become radicalized by their neighboring community and by looking at what ISIS is doing and trying to imitate it. Their community likely has a high Muslim population and the only reason it has such a high population of Muslims is because of Refugees.
The Paris attacks were also committed by migrants who traveled to Syria and back multiple times and passed all screening.

whether or not we let in refugees will have very little effect on the odds of a terror attack in my opinion.

Top chart is older terrorist attacks in Europe before they started letting in millions of migrants from Islamic countries.
Bottom chart is newer terrorist attacks in Europe after they started letting in millions of migrants from Islamic countries.
Although you may try to argue that no form of terrorism is good, look at the death toll comparatively with the other perpetrators. They are much much worse.

Instead of making ISIS have to plan complex systems to try to attack us, we would be coming to them. Really bad idea.
The United States easily has the strongest military in the world. If we wanted to we could do a full scale invasion like we did during the Gulf War of 1991 in Kuwait. I am not advocating for that directly though, see above.

In my opinion, if we get scared and keep the refugees out that would be just letting the terrorists win. They want us to be scared and to effect our lives.
Yes and if we let them in, they win as well. Islam is a conquering ideology.

As for the Africa thing, there are refugee issues all over the world. South America has an issue of its own. I think the thread creator was referring to the Syrian ones as they are the most controversial, but he can correct me if I am wrong.
Last time I checked there were not assloads of dangerous migrants coming to western societies from South America.

That being said, thank you for at least doing some research. A lot of people make arguments on this topic based on something that Fox News, Donald Trump, or some other mislead person said that is simply pure fiction. Not going to be calling out any names, but you can find a proper example of that on this thread. Good job demonsushi for giving them the facts. Don't feel bad though if you are the person that did it, you are 1 out of many many thousands.
No problem! I try to be as rational as possible in these discussions.

a lot of those sources are not credible in I'm not saying you are wrong because a lot are from reputable sources, but try to stay within newspapers like NYT, WSJ, forbes, CNN, fox etc. Especially those polls, like you cannot possibly believe those are true. I can't deny them, because I don't really know anything, I'm a kid, but they just cannot possibly be right.

You are correct that a lot of migrants are from Africa, but I don't see why that is a problem. I am a migrant the same why they are. I moved from Australia to the United States. Then I moved again from Chicago to New York. Then I moved from New York to London. Why am I different?

I think you are lumping together a lot of different people by saying ISIS isn't a problem; I think the discussion was revolving more around the immediate crisis of Syrians and Iraqis fleeing their country because of the war is going on.

Also, you are right, I misspoke, I meant to say the Paris attacks on the article I used, but the point still remains, and my point still stands. You are bunching together two very different groups of people, and treating them as the same. You are not able to get rid of Muslims; I'm sorry it's not possible, and I personally wouldn't want it that way either. There are not a lot of people like the ones you fear. If they live in Belgium, and are from Belgium, they are Belgian. Same goes for Dylann Roof. Except no one says all white people are psycho murderers. Sort of double standard, considering that on US soil, since 9/11, more people have been killed in mass shootings like this then muslim terrorist related activities, including events like the Boston Bombings which are again a very different topic.

I myself have had too many personal experiences with these people to ever believe what you are saying, despite the many many links you have posted, but thank you for providing those.

Not sure anyone said that. Please do be respectful though. Now point in hating anyone around the world, you don't know them and most are beautiful and respectable.

I am going to go read all of those articles now.

a lot of those sources are not credible in I'm not saying you are wrong because a lot are from reputable sources, but try to stay within newspapers
Quote from: https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPol...ew_research_a_reliable_source_of_information/
"I have a PhD in American Political Behavior and study public opinion / voting behavior for a living.
The short answer is that, yes, the Pew Research Center has an excellent reputation for being fair, accurate, and reliable. It is nonpartisan, nonprofit, and employs high quality researchers who generally use the best possible practices."

...newspapers like NYT, WSJ, forbes, CNN, fox etc.
These are newspapers and not polls? What are you talking about?

Especially those polls, like you cannot possibly believe those are true.
They are from Pew Research Center which is one of the most reliable polling services out there. You are denying reality.

...they just cannot possibly be right.
Just because you feel that they are wrong does not make them wrong.

You are correct that a lot of migrants are from Africa, but I don't see why that is a problem. I am a migrant the same why they are. I moved from Australia to the United States. Then I moved again from Chicago to New York. Then I moved from New York to London. Why am I different?
The migrants from Islamic countries have a deadly and conquering ideology that they bring with them. Islam is a conquering religion. One of the first things it did as a whole was to expand into an Islamic Empire in the middle ages. We cannot let these people into our western societies, they will destroy social cohesion and cause destruction.

I think you are lumping together a lot of different people by saying ISIS isn't a problem; I think the discussion was revolving more around the immediate crisis of Syrians and Iraqis fleeing their country because of the war is going on.
This is the problem I was trying to get at here; the majority of Islamic migrants are not coming into Europe from Syria/Iraq. However, many European countries are letting unlimited amounts of them in currently.

There are not a lot of people like the ones you fear. Same goes for Dylann Roof. Except no one says all white people are psycho murderers.
I concede this point.

If they live in Belgium, and are from Belgium, they are Belgian.
Excerpt from above: "Now even if some of these Muslims were not coming directly from Islamic countries into European countries, the real issue comes when you look at how these people are radicalized. They become radicalized by their neighboring community and by looking at what ISIS is doing and trying to imitate it. Their community likely has a high Muslim population. The only reason it has such a high population of Muslims is because of Refugees."

Tenebrous America and Russia are pretty much the only nations actually considering sending ground troops to subdue Isis, believing that the air strikes may not be enough. Even then, they've been sitting on the fence for ages because they don't want to lose their own countrymen if ISIS can be stopped another way.

I'm wondering though, what makes you think they're not only going to send in their own troops (and some labourers), but also stick around to create a camp for so many people? The displacement of Syrian refugees is being considered the largest humanitarian crisis in history; not only is it unlikely and almost impossible to set up those camps, but what's to stop ISIS from just destroying them in the near future? That would be an even greater waste of resources and human life, both refugee and Western.

For the record, the media is always going to target people of an Islamic background - the majority of your articles are stories of 1 person doing 1 horrible act. That is irrespective of the majority; I'm not going to say that the refugees in Europe have increased or decreased rape and other crime, because I haven't done my research. But the media will always blow anything out of proportion and focus on any scapegoat that can give them a story. If a white man mollests a child, no-one cares. If a muslim refugee does it, they make some cash. To generalise an entire people based on stories hand-picked by a biased media seems extremely unfair, especially given the fact that they're fleeing for their lives with nowhere to go.

America and Russia are pretty much the only nations actually considering sending ground troops to subdue Isis, believing that the air strikes may not be enough. Even then, they've been sitting on the fence for ages because they don't want to lose their own countrymen if ISIS can be stopped another way.
I concede your points here.

...what makes you think they're not only going to send in their own troops (and some labourers), but also stick around to create a camp for so many people?
I actually don't think they are going to. This is because we have these extreme politicians who either want to let them all in or let none of them in. Basically, it's a very rational and reasonable solution to do what I am proposing. None of the people in power are very rational or reasonable though.

The displacement of Syrian refugees is being considered the largest humanitarian crisis in history; not only is it unlikely and almost impossible to set up those camps, but what's to stop ISIS from just destroying them in the near future?
It is very possible.
http://www.unhcr.org/en-us/resettlement.html
The problem is that we're resettling them in the United States and other western nations and not helping to rebuild destroyed Middle Eastern societies and placing them there. ISIS will probably not successfully attack them as they will be quite far away, and even if they do it's much better than letting unlimited unassimilable people into our society.

But the media will always blow anything out of proportion and focus on any scapegoat that can give them a story. If a white man mollests a child, no-one cares. If a muslim refugee does it, they make some cash. To generalise an entire people based on stories hand-picked by a biased media seems extremely unfair, especially given the fact that they're fleeing for their lives with nowhere to go.
First of all, the Syrian "refugees" have done much more damage to society than just crime. They are unable to be properly assimilated into our society. Secondly, I really have no idea what you are talking about. There are plenty of stories about white men molesting children. The only reason the ones from Muslims are so important is because of the way they are committed. They are often more violent and occasionally make excuses that you would never hear a westerner say. For example if you actually read the article, a migrant blamed his molestation of a child on a "sexual emergency". No westerner would say this. The main problem with Islam once again is that it's a conquering ideology, crime rates will only increase as more and more enter.

lI know isis and al qaeda etc can seem like the worst people in the world, but hating them certainly won't make them any better.

Edit: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5 look at the murder statistics here, notice how the USA has a higher murder rate than pretty much every muslim country except for those at war, like Yemen and Iraq. Afghanistan has about the same number of murders per 100,000 people.

If you don't want to look at it, I'll list all the muslim countries with less murders per 100,000 and them more than the USA.

less: Indonesia, India (14% muslim), Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, UAE, Uzbekistan.
more: pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Yemen, Somalia.

Notice how it's pretty split? religion doesn't really play a factor.

I know isis and al qaeda etc can seem like the worst people in the world, but hating them certainly won't make them any better.
Yes let's just let them blow us up!

Indonesia, India (14% muslim), Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, UAE, Uzbekistan.
more: pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Yemen, Somalia.
Once again, this is not the whole picture. Many Muslims are violent in other ways and the crime is not what we should be worried about with these migrants. Also these are homicide rates, these are NOT terrorism, rape, or the myriads of other issues they are causing.

 

[arsenal]

You don't know what you're talking about.
Statistically speaking, near 97% of the recent terrorist attacks in Europe were done by Muslims. Now even if some of these Muslims were not coming directly from Islamic countries into European countries, the real issue comes when you look at how these people are radicalized. They become radicalized by their neighboring community and by looking at what ISIS is doing and trying to imitate it. Their community likely has a high Muslim population and the only reason it has such a high population of Muslims is because of Refugees.

Now I don't have stats to back this up, but it would seem to me that refugees are probably not very likely to become radicalized assuming that most of them are fleeing radicalized people. I would highly doubt that any of them would even consider joining what they fled. The only danger with letting the refugees in is that an already radicalized person gets in with them. So far I have not seen any cases where a refugee comes to Europe, and then gets radicalized.

Therefore, with refugees you may actually be filling the community with people that are immune to radicalization. This could even make it harder for the ideology to spread.

 

[demonsushi]

So you want to send troops in to protect the refugees? This makes no sense. Why would we want to give ISIS easy access to American's.
We need to set up camps in neighboring Islamic countries in order to house them. While that's happening we need to fight ISIS on the ground or use more strategic air strikes like we are doing currently.

No reason to put their lives at risk when we could just let the refugees into our country instead.
Refugees in our country are putting OUR lives at risk. See my response above, they are degrading society.

Yes, you will probably argue the opposite that refugees give ISIS easy access to Americans as well, but we can do our best to screen them even if we can't be 100% sure, and the refugee crisis is yet to be at fault for a terrorist attack contrary to what some believe.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Statistically speaking, near 97% of the recent terrorist attacks in Europe were done by Muslims. Now even if some of these Muslims were not coming directly from Islamic countries into European countries, the real issue comes when you look at how these people are radicalized. They become radicalized by their neighboring community and by looking at what ISIS is doing and trying to imitate it. Their community likely has a high Muslim population and the only reason it has such a high population of Muslims is because of Refugees.
The Paris attacks were also committed by migrants who traveled to Syria and back multiple times and passed all screening.

whether or not we let in refugees will have very little effect on the odds of a terror attack in my opinion.
View attachment 65541 View attachment 65542
Top chart is older terrorist attacks in Europe before they started letting in millions of migrants from Islamic countries.
Bottom chart is newer terrorist attacks in Europe after they started letting in millions of migrants from Islamic countries.
Although you may try to argue that no form of terrorism is good, look at the death toll comparatively with the other perpetrators. They are much much worse.

Instead of making ISIS have to plan complex systems to try to attack us, we would be coming to them. Really bad idea.
The United States easily has the strongest military in the world. If we wanted to we could do a full scale invasion like we did during the Gulf War of 1991 in Kuwait. I am not advocating for that directly though, see above.

In my opinion, if we get scared and keep the refugees out that would be just letting the terrorists win. They want us to be scared and to effect our lives.
Yes and if we let them in, they win as well. Islam is a conquering ideology.

As for the Africa thing, there are refugee issues all over the world. South America has an issue of its own. I think the thread creator was referring to the Syrian ones as they are the most controversial, but he can correct me if I am wrong.
Last time I checked there were not assloads of dangerous migrants coming to western societies from South America.

That being said, thank you for at least doing some research. A lot of people make arguments on this topic based on something that Fox News, Donald Trump, or some other mislead person said that is simply pure fiction. Not going to be calling out any names, but you can find a proper example of that on this thread. Good job demonsushi for giving them the facts. Don't feel bad though if you are the person that did it, you are 1 out of many many thousands.
No problem! I try to be as rational as possible in these discussions.


a lot of those sources are not credible in I'm not saying you are wrong because a lot are from reputable sources, but try to stay within newspapers
Quote from: https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPol...ew_research_a_reliable_source_of_information/
"I have a PhD in American Political Behavior and study public opinion / voting behavior for a living.
The short answer is that, yes, the Pew Research Center has an excellent reputation for being fair, accurate, and reliable. It is nonpartisan, nonprofit, and employs high quality researchers who generally use the best possible practices."

...newspapers like NYT, WSJ, forbes, CNN, fox etc.
These are newspapers and not polls? What are you talking about?

Especially those polls, like you cannot possibly believe those are true.
They are from Pew Research Center which is one of the most reliable polling services out there. You are denying reality.

...they just cannot possibly be right.
Just because you feel that they are wrong does not make them wrong.

You are correct that a lot of migrants are from Africa, but I don't see why that is a problem. I am a migrant the same why they are. I moved from Australia to the United States. Then I moved again from Chicago to New York. Then I moved from New York to London. Why am I different?
The migrants from Islamic countries have a deadly and conquering ideology that they bring with them. Islam is a conquering religion. One of the first things it did as a whole was to expand into an Islamic Empire in the middle ages. We cannot let these people into our western societies, they will destroy social cohesion and cause destruction.

I think you are lumping together a lot of different people by saying ISIS isn't a problem; I think the discussion was revolving more around the immediate crisis of Syrians and Iraqis fleeing their country because of the war is going on.
This is the problem I was trying to get at here; the majority of Islamic migrants are not coming into Europe from Syria/Iraq. However, many European countries are letting unlimited amounts of them in currently.

There are not a lot of people like the ones you fear. Same goes for Dylann Roof. Except no one says all white people are psycho murderers.
I concede this point.

If they live in Belgium, and are from Belgium, they are Belgian.
Excerpt from above: "Now even if some of these Muslims were not coming directly from Islamic countries into European countries, the real issue comes when you look at how these people are radicalized. They become radicalized by their neighboring community and by looking at what ISIS is doing and trying to imitate it. Their community likely has a high Muslim population. The only reason it has such a high population of Muslims is because of Refugees."



America and Russia are pretty much the only nations actually considering sending ground troops to subdue Isis, believing that the air strikes may not be enough. Even then, they've been sitting on the fence for ages because they don't want to lose their own countrymen if ISIS can be stopped another way.
I concede your points here.

...what makes you think they're not only going to send in their own troops (and some labourers), but also stick around to create a camp for so many people?
I actually don't think they are going to. This is because we have these extreme politicians who either want to let them all in or let none of them in. Basically, it's a very rational and reasonable solution to do what I am proposing. None of the people in power are very rational or reasonable though.

The displacement of Syrian refugees is being considered the largest humanitarian crisis in history; not only is it unlikely and almost impossible to set up those camps, but what's to stop ISIS from just destroying them in the near future?
It is very possible.
http://www.unhcr.org/en-us/resettlement.html
The problem is that we're resettling them in the United States and other western nations and not helping to rebuild destroyed Middle Eastern societies and placing them there. ISIS will probably not successfully attack them as they will be quite far away, and even if they do it's much better than letting unlimited unassimilable people into our society.

But the media will always blow anything out of proportion and focus on any scapegoat that can give them a story. If a white man mollests a child, no-one cares. If a muslim refugee does it, they make some cash. To generalise an entire people based on stories hand-picked by a biased media seems extremely unfair, especially given the fact that they're fleeing for their lives with nowhere to go.
First of all, the Syrian "refugees" have done much more damage to society than just crime. They are unable to be properly assimilated into our society. Secondly, I really have no idea what you are talking about. There are plenty of stories about white men molesting children. The only reason the ones from Muslims are so important is because of the way they are committed. They are often more violent and occasionally make excuses that you would never hear a westerner say. For example if you actually read the article, a migrant blamed his molestation of a child on a "sexual emergency". No westerner would say this. The main problem with Islam once again is that it's a conquering ideology, crime rates will only increase as more and more enter.


I know isis and al qaeda etc can seem like the worst people in the world, but hating them certainly won't make them any better.
Yes let's just let them blow us up!

Indonesia, India (14% muslim), Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, UAE, Uzbekistan.
more: pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Yemen, Somalia.
Once again, this is not the whole picture. Many Muslims are violent in other ways and the crime is not what we should be worried about with these migrants. Also these are homicide rates, these are NOT terrorism, rape, or the myriads of other issues they are causing.

Look, I think it's obvious that we are at a disagreement and neither of us are willing to change our positions. I'm not really interested in debating you anymore, because I thoroughly believe you are wrong and vice versa.

Thank you for being polite and I really enjoyed discussing with you.