Final Arguments: Make 'eZ', 'Rekt', 'L2P' Punishable

[Creepah]

Eh, it's quite a tricky topic really. I'd say a kick or a short mute if it got excessive, but doesn't really warrant a ban.

Imagine you're playing a sport with someone and they beat you and say "that was easy!" or "learn to play!" as much as you probably want to call them certain obscene words and think they're annoying and cocky, you're not going to ban them from playing the game, are you?

 

[ImProfuse]

Eh, it's quite a tricky topic really. I'd say a kick or a short mute if it got excessive, but doesn't really warrant a ban.

Imagine you're playing a sport with someone and they beat you and say "that was easy!" or "learn to play!" as much as you probably want to call them certain obscene words and think they're annoying and cocky, you're not going to ban them from playing the game, are you?

 

[JoelJCE]

Simply personal observation, from both me and friends.

Observation alone isn't accurate. Don't throw estimates around aimlessly and use that to supplement an argument. If you had legitimate data to back up the assertion that censoring these words/phrases actually had a positive effect on the community, then maybe I'd be more prone to believe you.

Also:

Congratulations? It's not a secret..

Please learn to grasp the context in which something is said. It's a skill that might make you easier to respect.

 

[WookiePack101]

Observation alone isn't accurate. Don't throw estimates around aimlessly and use that to supplement an argument.

By aimlessly throwing estimates around you mean me giving my input on a certain topic in which I know better than most people here, including yourself than yes, I am. Don't be so quick to assume the worst just because you don't know me.

If you had legitimate data to back up the assertion that censoring these words/phrases actually had a positive effect on the community, then maybe I'd be more prone to believe you.

Do you think I'm lying? No, I'm not. Lying would do me no good. I simply stated my opinion and observations to help influence others' decisions. That's all there is to it. And quite frankly, I don't need you to agree with anything I say. I know I'm right, I know you're confused as to what precisely happens the "other server," so why would I need to prove to you anything? If it matters so much, do your own research, ask anyone who has played on that server before and after the update.

Please learn to grasp the context in which something is said. It's a skill that might make you easier to respect.

Please learn to speak politely to others. It's a skill that might make you easier to respect. Your statement was quite rude, especially because you appear to believe I was clueless as to what you meant. I know exactly what you meant, I chose to slightly take it out of context because you clearly don't know that server considering you're against me.

If you wish to discuss this further, feel free, but PM me rather than spam this thread with flame. I will not be replying on this thread.

 

[Tenebrous]

Interesting. In my opinion I think a /ignore or /chatoff command should be added.

 

[OGLad_]

iWinster LOL

 

[JoelJCE]

By aimlessly throwing estimates around you mean me giving my input on a certain topic in which I know better than most people here, including yourself than yes, I am. Don't be so quick to assume the worst just because you don't know me.

I'm not saying don't contribute to a topic. But if you're going to contribute, please don't falsify statistics.

Do you think I'm lying? No, I'm not. I simply stated my opinion and observations to help influence others' decisions. That's all there is to it.

You are lying. By definition, lying is telling lies, false statements, or in general, untruthfulness. You have no data to back up your claim that censoring these words reduces trash talk by 90%. If you do, by all means, present it. And it is the very fact that your aim is to influence someone else's opinion that the statistics you present should be backed up by actual data, as opposed to some number that you've pulled out of the air that you (or your friends) feel adequately describes the change in the server's atmosphere.

Look at the latest announcement concerning the changes to hacking punishments. There's actual data presented there. It isn't made up. Justify your arguments with actual figures. Don't make up something that you "feel" is around the right number.

Please learn to speak politely to others. It's a skill that might make you easier to respect.

I'm contributing my own opinion to the topic by indicating that your opinion is backed up by nonsense. If you feel that I'm disrespecting you, then I'm sorry that you feel that way. Ultimately, I really don't care whether or not you respect me.

I will not be replying on this thread.

Please don't. :]

 

[Nikola]

I do respect your suggestion but I don't think it should be bannable. Because it's not offending you whatsoever, and you can ignore it very easy. There's a ton of other harassments that a player can do over a game. This is a really small problem compare to let's say hackers. I'm not complaining i'm just pointing out.

 

[Nirmit|NirmitPlays]

you are a god.

 

[LegotGinger]

NO NO NO NO NO

 

[Col_StaR]

Personally, I want to see trash talking be punishable just on values alone. Heck, I'd say that we should give this a shot for a week, see what happens (I don't think Chad nor the Admins would appreciate that, though). But banning seems to severe; I'd like to see automatic mutes or periods where the games you play do not matter (wins or losses are not added to your stats overall).

Really, this entire argument is one big value/tolerance argument, and people are expect the staff to draw a line in the stand on some very grey area. Abuse, racism, insults are easy to pick out because they're ad hominem attacks that, if taken out of context, can still be seen as malicious. But trash talk must take the context of the game into account as well, since it doesn't make much sense if someone says, "Learn 2 Play" in real life. Plus, even if we made it filtered or bannable, people will find a way to bypass or just invent new terms altogether. All these factors are why the staff do not feel comfortable instating a punishment policy over using such terms.

One thing I will not flinch on: "gg" being a positive term. I don't know when the heck "gg" turned into an insult, but somehow it has during my tenure here. And to be honest, I don't think it's inherent to the term, I think it's a misuse of the term. Subjectivity determines whether a game was good or not, so whether the term GG is used positively or negatively depends purely on the user and the context. But I do not want to start a policy where, "he said GG when it was not a good game" becomes a legitimate report for a ban.

 

[Zacharoutio]

Personally, I want to see trash talking be punishable just on values alone. Heck, I'd say that we should give this a shot for a week, see what happens (I don't think Chad nor the Admins would appreciate that, though). But banning seems to severe; I'd like to see automatic mutes or periods where the games you play do not matter (wins or losses are not added to your stats overall).

Really, this entire argument is one big value/tolerance argument, and people are expect the staff to draw a line in the stand on some very grey area. Abuse, racism, insults are easy to pick out because they're ad hominem attacks that, if taken out of context, can still be seen as malicious. But trash talk must take the context of the game into account as well, since it doesn't make much sense if someone says, "Learn 2 Play" in real life. Plus, even if we made it filtered or bannable, people will find a way to bypass or just invent new terms altogether. All these factors are why the staff do not feel comfortable instating a punishment policy over using such terms.

One thing I will not flinch on: "gg" being a positive term. I don't know when the heck "gg" turned into an insult, but somehow it has during my tenure here. And to be honest, I don't think it's inherent to the term, I think it's a misuse of the term. Subjectivity determines whether a game was good or not, so whether the term GG is used positively or negatively depends purely on the user and the context. But I do not want to start a policy where, "he said GG when it was not a good game" becomes a legitimate report for a ban.

I think you are right when you say that about an overall look on the situation. This whole argument is all about tolerance. It is a matter of opinion on what the words mean, how much they would hurt someone and how much someone can deal with 'trash talk'.

But, as an ex- staff member I realise it may be very hard to enforce. If someone says 'l2p' to someone, what happens if they dispute it meaning that they were just joking with their friend and they do it all the time. Will people that do that use that as an excuse get away with it? And, will people that are simply joking with someone they are speaking to be punished and have their record stained. It would take a lot of hard work?
And if we want to stop it, why not try to include a filter before going straight to kicks/mutes?

I believe a positive way forward may be a detailed, unbiased overview of the situation which looks at the pros and cons of both sides of the argument.