The God Debate v2

[Tenebrous]

Your first proposition is erroneous because God is not required for "good" to be in the world. Also good and evil don't actually manifest physically. I mean, I guess we can measure the rate and patterns of neuronal impulses which give rise to these apparent attributes, but you can't measure good and evil. Good and evil are completely subjective as well, which kills your argument from morality.

The problem with your assumptions about the bible. You assert that someone can interpret the bible in a way that is consistent with current scientific knowledge. However there are hundreds of other creation stories which contradict yours and you could also argue that they are supported (even though none of it is, just using your method of argument) by modern science.

Atheists don't hate God, nor do they reject him.

The Big Bang is NOT an explosion of light. It is the expansion of space. The Big Bang is also not the beginning according to a plethora of new pre-big bang models in physics.
Here are some I know of which don't require God.
Ekpryrotic Model- The universe is a 4d brane floating in a 12 dimensional hyperspace. There are many branes stacked ontop and they vibrate, every trillion years they touch and create a Big Bang.
Paper: http://physics.princeton.edu/~steinh/vaasrev.pdf

Cyclic Model- Infinite Regress, the universe expands and contracts infinitely.
Paper: http://gravity.psu.edu/outreach/articles/bigbounce.pdf

Or maybe we live in a computer simulation?

Or maybe we're Boltzmann brains or brains in vats.

Maybe a property of nothing is that it creates something?

Maybe time is slowing down?
Paper: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1505.02052

Maybe time is an illusion?
Paper: http://arxiv.org/pdf/0905.0119.pdf

By the way, there are no logical arguments for God. So you're the illogical one.

The difference between an atheist and a theist is one tries to understand things, one just accepts them as true.

PS: I used to have similar views to you but I did more research and changed.

There's also no such thing as objective truth.

 

[Vtnw]

You guys are acting like if god is real, the world is going to be perfect. He wants us to figure things out and do things ourselves.

sorry to inform u but god is not real :/

 

[Ceroria]

Seems very convincing, but I can't begin to imagine a large being magically causing a chemical reaction out of a small form of matter, seems far too far fetched to me.

Well it's also scientific fact that you can't make something from nothing.

Edit: Yes, the Big Bang did not come from nothing, it expanded out of a super condensed form of matter, but what about before that? How did stuff become stuff?

 

[MrExtrodinaryMr]

Why do I believe that God exists? Objective truth. People ask why evil exists in this world, then question how can there be a "God" if there's so much evil?! The answer is so simple! Let's start by defining evil. Evil in itself is not actually a thing. Evil is the absence of Good. What is good? By the objective definition, God is good, therefore where there is not God there is evil. God gave us free will, therefore those who choose to deny Him and do rather awful things can be classified as "evil". This loops back to the fact that God did, in fact, create evil by giving us free will.

So what are the more "scientific" proofs against God doing then? They stand some solid points. How about evolution? There is NOTHING in the bible that states that people do not adapt to their environments and go through gradual physical changes. That's simply science, no confliction with God. In fact, evolution states that all beings "evolved" from one common ancestor. The Bible states everything came from the hand of God. Yes the wordage and methods are a bit different, however the ideas are the SAME thing!

The Big Bang? God created light, and the sun, and the stars, etc. Now may I ask you, what was the Big Bang? A sudden explosion of light from presumably nothing. That seems like the work of God to me.

It's not just enough, however, to believe that God exists. To all those so say they believe in God, there's more to it. A follower of God will put their life in his hands, and allow the Holy Spirit to work through them to continue God's plan.

To all those who may be thinking "I don't know, maybe God exists." I ENCOURAGE you to seek God out. All of those who are hellbent against God, I encourage everyone to open their minds! I see a lot of people here who are against God telling Christians that they can't tell a good argument and are closed-minded, however I can say the exact same about you!

Those who have truly put their faith in God and felt His power will be the only who truly understand. It isn't a "God is or isn't real" debate, you must believe, and in that experience what God has to offer.

"What is good? By the objective definition, God is good, therefore where there is not God there is evil. God gave us free will, therefore those who choose to deny Him and do rather awful things can be classified as "evil". "

Yes, god is such a good and loving god, that people who even dare to question him by using their brain and not just accept that he is real, get send to "hell" to suffer for eternity. Also, why does god let people who are completely innocent and who haven't done anything wrong to suffer and die? If he just watches them without doing absolute nothing, he's simply a bloody psycho.

"The Big Bang? God created light, and the sun, and the stars, etc. Now may I ask you, what was the Big Bang? A sudden explosion of light from presumably nothing. That seems like the work of God to me."

Tenebrous12321 explained that part better than I will, so I'll move on with it.

"It's not just enough, however, to believe that God exists. To all those so say they believe in God, there's more to it. A follower of God will put their life in his hands, and allow the Holy Spirit to work through them to continue God's plan."

So the whole purpose that god has created us is so that we will worship him for the rest of our life? what kind of a horrible god does that? Also what the actual crap is god's plan? I always here many people say that the whole purpose of life is a test and that god has put us into a test, to see where we will go (Heaven or Hell). My problem is why does good needs to put us in a test, if he as a all powerful and all knowing being already knows where we will go?

"To all those who may be thinking "I don't know, maybe God exists." I ENCOURAGE you to seek God out. All of those who are hellbent against God, I encourage everyone to open their minds! I see a lot of people here who are against God telling Christians that they can't tell a good argument and are closed-minded, however I can say the exact same about you!"

Yes, Christians can't tell a good damn argument, because they're entire argument is based on beliefs rather than god damn solid evidence. And every time we present them with some evidence they act like "IT'S JUST MY BELIEF, LEAVE ME ALONE!l!!l". Also how are us atheists close-minded? I'd really like to hear that from you Mr. Mod.

"Those who have truly put their faith in God and felt His power will be the only who truly understand. It isn't a "God is or isn't real" debate, you must believe, and in that experience what God has to offer. "

Well I'm happy to let you know that plenty of atheists used to be very religious people, until they decided to question his existence, did their own research and became atheists, what do you have to say about them?

Well it's also scientific fact that you can't make something from nothing.

Well with that logic god can't just come out of nowhere, there has to be something before him that created him, unless suddenly god just has always been there and w're dumb. :^)

 

[Ceroria]

"What is good? By the objective definition, God is good, therefore where there is not God there is evil. God gave us free will, therefore those who choose to deny Him and do rather awful things can be classified as "evil". "

Yes, god is such a good and loving god, that people who even dare to question him by using their brain and not just accept that he is real, get send to "hell" to suffer for eternity. Also, why does god let people who are completely innocent and who haven't done anything wrong to suffer and die? If he just watches them without doing absolute nothing, he's simply a bloody psycho.

"The Big Bang? God created light, and the sun, and the stars, etc. Now may I ask you, what was the Big Bang? A sudden explosion of light from presumably nothing. That seems like the work of God to me."

Tenebrous12321 explained that part better than I will, so I'll move on with it.

"It's not just enough, however, to believe that God exists. To all those so say they believe in God, there's more to it. A follower of God will put their life in his hands, and allow the Holy Spirit to work through them to continue God's plan."

So the whole purpose that god has created us is so that we will worship him for the rest of our life? what kind of a horrible god does that? Also what the actual crap is god's plan? I always here many people say that the whole purpose of life is a test and that god has put us into a test, to see where we will go (Heaven or Hell). My problem is why does good needs to put us in a test, if he as a all powerful and all knowing being already knows where we will go?

"To all those who may be thinking "I don't know, maybe God exists." I ENCOURAGE you to seek God out. All of those who are hellbent against God, I encourage everyone to open their minds! I see a lot of people here who are against God telling Christians that they can't tell a good argument and are closed-minded, however I can say the exact same about you!"

Yes, Christians can't tell a good damn argument, because they're entire argument is based on beliefs rather than god damn solid evidence. And every time we present them with some evidence they act like "IT'S JUST MY BELIEF, LEAVE ME ALONE!l!!l". Also how are us atheists close-minded? I'd really like to hear that from you Mr. Mod.

"Those who have truly put their faith in God and felt His power will be the only who truly understand. It isn't a "God is or isn't real" debate, you must believe, and in that experience what God has to offer. "

Well I'm happy to let you know that plenty of atheists used to be very religious people, until they decided to question his existence, did their own research and became atheists, what do you have to say about them?


Well with that logic god can't just come out of nowhere, there has to be something before him that created him, unless suddenly god just has always been there and w're dumb. :^)

Regarding your first point, God punishes those who sin. Yes, you can be a great person and not believe in Him. I'm not saying all atheists are horrible disgusting evil beings, in fact nasty atheists are pretty rare from what I have seen however being a nice guy doesn't get you in good. Accepting God and letting the Holy Spirit work through you will be what gives eternal life.

Those who see God as this horrendous, awful thing aren't seeing the whole picture. God is the ultimate judge, and those who deny Him, obviously won't be accepted by Him to experience eternal life. Yes, he loves us all, and in that he gives us free will as I mentioned before. Free will allows for us to make our own choices & sin and deny Him. No single Human being is worthy of Him because we're imperfect, but if we choose to follow Him we will be forgiven and accepted. Etc, I could go on about how Jesus died for us yada yada yada but I have to board a flight and I doubt many here who don't already know actually care.

 

[MrExtrodinaryMr]

Regarding your first point, God punishes those who sin. Yes, you can be a great person and not believe in Him. I'm not saying all atheists are horrible disgusting evil beings, in fact nasty atheists are pretty rare from what I have seen however being a nice guy doesn't get you in good. Accepting God and letting the Holy Spirit work through you will be what gives eternal life.

Those who see God as this horrendous, awful thing aren't seeing the whole picture. God is the ultimate judge, and those who deny Him, obviously won't be accepted by Him to experience eternal life. Yes, he loves us all, and in that he gives us free will as I mentioned before. Free will allows for us to make our own choices & sin and deny Him. No single Human being is worthy of Him because we're imperfect, but if we choose to follow Him we will be forgiven and accepted. Etc, I could go on about how Jesus died for us yada yada yada but I have to board a flight and I doubt many here who don't already know actually care.

But we've all sinned once in our lifetime, so we're all kinda doomed. :^)

Yea, nice that he gives free will and all, but you still haven't explained why some people have to be born with horrible problems in their body if they didn't bring them upon them self, why did god let that happen?

Oh and "Those who see God as this horrendous, awful thing aren't seeing the whole picture.", please just look at this: http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=21 and tell me if you still think god is a good being.
Also what about people who have never heard about this being called "god", like those in North Korea? Who live in propaganda, what is going to be their fate when they die?

 

[boboy1999]

Well it's also scientific fact that you can't make something from nothing.

Edit: Yes, the Big Bang did not come from nothing, it expanded out of a super condensed form of matter, but what about before that? How did stuff become stuff?

Then where did God come from? If you want to say something cant come from nothing then how can you say God came from nothing. If you say God always existed then why cant you say the matter that created the big bang always existed.
Stop fooling yourself and living a lie. I care about you and others, all I want is for people to see the truth and not be delusional. You are arguing something that cant be proven or tested. Everything you say about God loving people and heaven is all made up. There is no evidence for any of it. Trying to disprove science by saying something cant come from nothing doesn't give your point about God and validity.

You and any other person cant give one single piece of real evidence for God. All religious people try to do is disprove evolution and the big bang. Those two things is our current observable understanding of the universe. You cant believe in science, science is a fact whether you want to believe it or not. The belief in a God is a joke.

If God was real he surely wouldn't be a kind and all loving God. He is a sick and insane idea that is blindly mistaken to be good. I don't understand why people would believe an old book that we cant prove over modern observable science that can be tested over and over again. The only reason why you believe is because your parents told you so. You have no other good reason to believe in the bible or God. Instead of trying to disprove or question observable science why don't you try to prove the validity of your bible and your God. You cant.

 

[Electrix]

those who deny Him, obviously won't be accepted by Him to experience eternal life.

Wouldn't God understand people's doubts and understand their beliefs? Do the 5-6 billion people who aren't Christian go to hell as well? If God's master plan is a test, he would probably teach us he is real from birth, to prevent innocent people from suffering just because they didn't believe.

 

[MrExtrodinaryMr]

Then where did God come from? If you want to say something cant come from nothing then how can you say God came from nothing. If you say God always existed then why cant you say the matter that created the big bang always existed.
Stop fooling yourself and living a lie. I care about you and others, all I want is for people to see the truth and not be delusional. You are arguing something that cant be proven or tested. Everything you say about God loving people and heaven is all made up. There is no evidence for any of it. Trying to disprove science by saying something cant come from nothing doesn't give your point about God and validity.

You and any other person cant give one single piece of real evidence for God. All religious people try to do is disprove evolution and the big bang. Those two things is our current observable understanding of the universe. You cant believe in science, science is a fact whether you want to believe it or not. The belief in a God is a joke.

If God was real he surely wouldn't be a kind and all loving God. He is a sick and insane idea that is blindly mistaken to be good. I don't understand why people would believe an old book that we cant prove over modern observable science that can be tested over and over again. The only reason why you believe is because your parents told you so. You have no other good reason to believe in the bible or God. Instead of trying to disprove or question observable science why don't you try to prove the validity of your bible and your God. You cant.

 

[Tenebrous]

Destroying the cosmological argument AND the argument from complexity with a few setences.

-The world is so complex! Must be god!
Well God made it and he's more complex than the world so he needs to have a god.

-What came before the Big Bang?
What came before god? And don't say god is eternal cause you just implied that something can be eternal, so the Big Bang singularity can also be eternal.

 

[MrExtrodinaryMr]

Destroying the cosmological argument AND the argument from complexity with a few setences.

-The world is so complex! Must be god!
Well God made it and he's more complex than the world so he needs to have a god.

-What came before the Big Bang?
What came before god? And don't say god is eternal cause you just implied that something can be eternal, so the Big Bang singularity can also be eternal.

You just need to have faith and then you will understand!

 

[Electrix]

You cant believe in science, science is a fact whether you want to believe it or not.

You must realize that most of science is THEORIES, many of which have been disproven before. Science is about realizing what we don't know and accepting it, then working to develop a theory on how things work. In 50 years many theories will be revised and improved upon, and in 500 humans will probably think we were idiots.