My solution to the controversial topic "deleting evidence"

[M3rsh]

What if the deleting if evidence is accidental? e.g YouTube channel shutting down, copyright strikes, accounts hacked, something like that.

I'm not trying to sound rude here, but let's set up a scene. A user(user 1) reports another user for hacking, (user 2). User 1 then deletes the video for no known malicious reason. He could have been cleaning out his channel, some obscure reason, or it there could have been a reason like I stated above like it was deleted on accident (keep in mind that user 1 is not keenly aware of this rule, there is no reminder of this in the report abuse section, and it is almost at the very bottom of the rules, which user 1 read and agreed to). User 2 was banned for a week, and wants to dispute his ban about a week after he was unbanned just so he can have a clean slate and apply for mod possibly in the future, so he submits a ban dispute.

Luckily for our friend user 2 over here, he gets unbanned because his evidence no longer exists (or, the Sr. Staff will uphold the ban cause they've seen the evidence before it was deleted and can remember if the user was clearly hacking). Either way, user 1 is permanently banned from the network for deleting evidence. He can never play MCSG again because he got somebody unbanned on ACCIDENT who was going to be unbanned anyway.

Now let's say user 2 was permanently banned for hacking and the same situation takes place and he gets unbanned/upheld and user 1 is now permanently banned, as per the rules. While this may be deserved, it's slightly harsh because it's not a federal law that he's broken (which is the only other first offense perm-ban besides mass disrespect), and he was never given a second chance like every other offense here at the MCGamer network.

I rest my case, please take this into consideration.

I love this.

Adding on, I was talking to a friend of mine about this, and he brought up a very interesting point. In this example, the player reporting wouldn't be at fault, however the player that was reported and the way YouTube works would.

After asking for his/her evidence for the ban, the player takes the video, flags it, gives it to a bunch of his friends, who also flag it. Eventually, the video gets so many flags that YouTube doesn't even take the time to watch it; they delete the video without warning. At this point, there's no way of getting the video back up unless you have it stored on your computer.

For people like me who go through 4 or 5 hackers every day, I delete the videos, which means if and when such thing happens, I'd get permbanned according to the rules.

*not giving hackers ideas, just warning the general public.*

 

[average_name]

the current rule kinda discourages reporting hackers tbh

some youtube glitch could delete your video, and as a result you would get permbanned.

could be argued that just not reporting hackers at all is the easier (more lazy) option with less consequences.

 

[Ikanacanyon7]

In my personal opinion, the permanent ban for removing evidence is completely fair and well-deserved for people who do remove evidence. It's not like you have to pay for each video that you have on your YouTube account.

I disagree with calling it fair... Permabanning someone for hacking is fair, banning someone who actually tried helping the community via reporting a hacker is not. Deleting evidence should be punishable, I dont deny that, but permabanning is not fair at all. When punishing someone for deleting evidence, I think what should be taken into account is how old the ban report actually is. I mean, you think banning someone that deleted hacking evidence from back in 2012 would be fair? Its just an example, but I think you know what I mean.

 

[cscoop]

I love this.

Adding on, I was talking to a friend of mine about this, and he brought up a very interesting point. In this example, the player reporting wouldn't be at fault, however the player that was reported and the way YouTube works would.

After asking for his/her evidence for the ban, the player takes the video, flags it, gives it to a bunch of his friends, who also flag it. Eventually, the video gets so many flags that YouTube doesn't even take the time to watch it; they delete the video without warning. At this point, there's no way of getting the video back up unless you have it stored on your computer.

For people like me who go through 4 or 5 hackers every day, I delete the videos, which means if and when such thing happens, I'd get permbanned according to the rules.

*not giving hackers ideas, just warning the general public.*

YESSSS YouTube is really unreliable like that! No matter how hard it is to make a database for these video files, its much better than YouTube. They could just put a length limit on report abuse videos so as they don't take space, and something that takes longer to get evidence for (proving someone is a perm-banned player or something) they can just talk to higher staff directly.

 

[Giolightning]

YESSSS YouTube is really unreliable like that! No matter how hard it is to make a database for these video files, its much better than YouTube. They could just put a length limit on report abuse videos so as they don't take space, and something that takes longer to get evidence for (proving someone is a perm-banned player or something) they can just talk to higher staff directly.

Logic:
<Cscoop> Hmm, let me help the servers with reporting a hacker
*records and reports*
*deletes video for memory or space or becuz yt is acting stupid*
*gets banned*
<Cscoop> k den.

 

[cscoop]

In my personal opinion, the permanent ban for removing evidence is completely fair and well-deserved for people who do remove evidence. It's not like you have to pay for each video that you have on your YouTube account.

Are you kidding? "Oh he got this guy out of a 7 day ban, lets kick him out forever" Do you even realize how little people are going to report even the most obvious of hackers after this? Besides, as others have pointed out, if you get a lot of people to flag a video, its down for good. YouTube is super unreliable and unsafe for "storage" of evidence.

 

[Edog]

Are you kidding? "Oh he got this guy out of a 7 day ban, lets kick him out forever" Do you even realize how little people are going to report even the most obvious of hackers after this? Besides, as others have pointed out, if you get a lot of people to flag a video, its down for good. YouTube is super unreliable and unsafe for "storage" of evidence.

Maybe mods would have to actually go look for hackers then :O

 

[KiDD]

It is a nice idea, although what if a user was reported and the evidence was presented in other ways?

 

[M3rsh]

I just thought of something, but I have no clue if this is at all going to be able of being implemented.

If you and another player spectate someone in the 1.8 spec mode, you see the exact same thing (apart from textures). If there was a bot that could possibly go around and record hackers' perspectives as well as the people they are fighting and store the videos on MCG servers...

Again, not sure if this could be implemented, but a good idea to ponder on nevertheless.

 

[Ceroria]

I just thought of something, but I have no clue if this is at all going to be able of being implemented.

If you and another player spectate someone in the 1.8 spec mode, you see the exact same thing (apart from textures). If there was a bot that could possibly go around and record hackers' perspectives as well as the people they are fighting and store the videos on MCG servers...

Again, not sure if this could be implemented, but a good idea to ponder on nevertheless.

The only problem I can see with that is how would the bot classify someone as a hacker and how wold it record? Through the server? At least 1.8 will seem to make catching hackers easier. A lot easier.

GOODBYE TOGGLERS!!!!! Yeah but like honestly, my biggest problem with anything/anyone is people who toggle in scrims/clan battles. It's just low, man.

 

[Nick]

I don't fully understand what you mean here, wouldn't giving you the evidence on teamspeak be the same as making a report abuse?


I get where you are coming from Devin, as they are causing a lot of unneeded work for the Sr Staff/ getting rule breakers un banned. But the reality behind it is that the majority of users who sign onto the network have not read the rules and is the deleting evidence rules is not an obvious rule such as don't hack or spam. Therefore it seems a bit of a heavy punishment towards a user. I know that by using any of MCGamers services you agree to the rules but lets be honest here. How many people actually read the rules, not many.

The report abuse is a paper trail and we can see who gave us the evidence.

 

[Ava]

I don't fully understand what you mean here, wouldn't giving you the evidence on teamspeak be the same as making a report abuse?


I get where you are coming from Devin, as they are causing a lot of unneeded work for the Sr Staff/ getting rule breakers un banned. But the reality behind it is that the majority of users who sign onto the network have not read the rules and is the deleting evidence rules is not an obvious rule such as don't hack or spam. Therefore it seems a bit of a heavy punishment towards a user. I know that by using any of MCGamers services you agree to the rules but lets be honest here. How many people actually read the rules, not many.

We aren't changing the rules because of people not reading them; that's like saying if I murdered someone, I shouldn't be punished because I didn't know it was illegal/wrong to kill people.
(If you want a less obvious example, it's like saying I can get away with jaywalking in Seattle because I didn't know it was illegal.)