For the better of MCSG

[Col_StaR]

-Snip-

When I read suggestion threads like this, I look for a few characteristics:

1. Positive tone. It suggests, it does not demand.
   
2. Points to a valid and fixable issues. It suggests changing map rotations, not, "no corrupt staff!"
   
3. Actually offers suggestions. Criticism we can take, but suggestions we can use.
4. Fair perspective on the issues being discussed. You aren't demanding to lower VIP requirements because your request was denied for not having enough subscribers.

A lot of threads claiming to do the same don't always meet this criteria; some of them fail it so badly they get removed.
This thread has all of them. That makes me happy.

So, we've all heard from the player and the Mods perspective of CreeperFarts's suggestions. I'm here to offer the Administrative perspective.

Suggestion #1 - In game map removals/adding new maps:
I wish I had more opinions for the first topic, but mapping was never my department. I know the maps are important, and that people would like us to be more active on the mapping side. That's fair, and I agree with that. But I know that we're trying to make things more efficient and improve communication with the build teams. The build team leaders of TE, TI, and RF all have direct communications with us and each other via a group chat we host in Slack, along with the rest of the staff communications.

In regards to the raffle voting, you mentioned that a lot of maps are showing up that are unwanted or not liked, and that the logical conclusion would be to remove them from the rotation entirely. I have an issue with this. If a map is not liked or unwanted, rather than vouching for its total removal from the system, wouldn't a better solution be to not vote for the map? We give you guys plenty of other options to vote for, so what's the harm of occasionally seeing that disliked map on a vote when there are other choices to pick from?

Map Pack Rotation servers I like. In fact, I think we did something similar to that before with the voting (we did not restrict server rotations). However, I don't know if it'd be possible to restrict a specific map rotation to specific servers. I don't know enough about the mapping side of the servers to comment.

Personally, I'd also like to see map removals based on a better system than polls. Polls are tricky because tastes are subjective, and people vote quite fiercely against each other when it comes to map opinions; I could probably blow up the forums by asking whether we should remove Breeze Island, Freeze Island, or Demons Breeze. But rather than letting people vote with their opinions, let them do it with their play time. Track the five least played maps in the servers every month, remove those five and replace them with any good new maps plus any readded old maps. No one misses the removed maps (since they were obviously not played as often as before), and we can keep the rotation fairly fresh. That'd be my addendum suggestion.

Suggestion #2 - Solo queue vs Team queue games:
I'm not going to touch the, "it's part of the game" aspect of it, but I do strongly agree with it. Behavior is entirely player-dependent, and we erase the idea of teaming from players' heads, nor their ability to team by banning chat or third party communication programs. A Dev said recently, "i wish people played differently", but he also stated, "It's part of the game, being able to deal with that makes you a better player than someone who can't. "

Chad and I have been talking about this, and I've been thinking about this for quite a while. People obviously dislike teaming since, in their eyes, it's a dominant strategy that is disrupting their preferred style of gameplay. We've had suggestions come up time and time again, but we keep hitting the same roadblock again and again: how would we realistically enforce this?

Rules are nice, but worthless without enforcement. We can put a rule that says, "no teams larger than three", but is a bit of text going to stop people? It doesn't stop it in the other networks with that rule, since their staff are dealing with the same day-to-day issues we do.

Want a server where it's bannable to team? That requires 24-7 enforcement in those servers from a mod staff that people already complain aren't everywhere all the time. And when mods are already focusing on the higher-priority offenders such as hackers, abusers, and other reports, they aren't going to be able to watch games to make sure every player is attacking each other on site in a separate server somewhere. We can handle Report Abuses by banning after the fact, but I don't think players will be content knowing the teaming player got away with that unfair win.

People suggested a team-detecting plug-in before, which I found to be absolutely ridiculous. The ideas they have might be valid (detect if two users share space for a specific amount of time while not attacking each other), but the necessary code to implement such an idea is absolutely nuts to code and resource-intensive to track across all players everywhere. From a Dev perspective, that is just nuts.

There were ideas that passed across Chad's desk about enforcing teaming by scrambling everyone's names and skins in a game. I liked that idea, and it was probably the most viable plan. However, people were quick to point out that it would be easily fooled by teamers chatting through Skype. All they'd need to do is, "Hey buddy. Meet me at ___ so I know who you are," and they've already beat the system.

As you can see, we've run through plenty of possible situations and weighed their demands and outcomes, but nothing is realistic for us to implement. And that says nothing of the number of players who would leave after being temporary banned for simply using a favored strategy.

Suggestion #3 - Bleeping out rude/disrespectful chat messages:
This, I'm proud to say, is actually getting worked on. I am currently spearheading the program to change our policies and address trash talk on our network. I think it's time to actually draw a line in that grey area and punish those who would cross it. But let me tell you that it's not easy nor nice.

From a staffing perspective, trash talk is going to be a pain to enforce. I saw a Report Abuse just before I saw this thread that was reporting a player for, "being mean and saying 'ez and gg10'". Sure enough, the evidence was exactly that. Now, from an impersonal Moderator perspective, is that enough to be considered insulting? When you can spend the equivalent amount of time looking over hacker reports, is this even worth your time? Trashtalk is prevalent enough that- should it become punishable- we're expecting our daily Report Abuse traffic to double with trash talk report alone. That means more work for the mods and slower responsiveness to other offenses. The dilemma we're faced with is, "is that cost worth it?"

But it's the Dev-side perspective that gives me a little more hope. I was recently talking with a Dev, and he said that he could implement a blank filter for trash talking. So if the filter comes across a term like, "eZ", "rekt", and "l2p", the message will not be put in chat for players to see, and the messaging player will receive an automated message reminding them to play nice. This automated system would remove much of the burden from the staff, and it would be minimally invasive. We will still have to deal with new trash talk that people invent just to get around the filter (such as saying "lemon squeezy", which is apparently a thing?), but that's a small price to pay considering we'd successfully filter a large majority of the trash talk offenses.

But the issue is timeliness. Devs have their own responsibilities and priorities, and there's no saying when that request will be pushed through. That's why I do as much as I can from a staffing perspective in lieu of a Dev alternative: in lieu of the best solution, we make due with the solution we can actually put to use.

Suggestion #4 - Listen to the community more/Stay in tune with it:
Can't disagree with that, but everyone has to remember to have realistic expectations too. Nothing is as easy or perfect as it may appear to be. As many staff members can attest, you don't realize how complicated things are until you start to view how big the picture really is, and that's something you might not see as a player.

First, I want to address the Dev side of things:

We hear when you guys bring issues to us, especially when things break. But repairing them takes time, especially when the Dev team is scattered on different projects and tasks. Fixing a bug isn't as easy as seeing it happen and then waving a magic wand to fix it forever. In order to fix a bug, it needs to be reported, replicated, isolated, researched, fixed in code, and then tested to ensure the fix works. Small bugs can get done in an hour (I remember KP even live-streamed fixing the fence post glitch), but bigger bugs may take days or even weeks.

And even then, issues come up. Take the /disguise command for example. We knew from day 1 that it had broken, but larger server issues (like servers not restarting or games not starting) took priority. After the Devs were able to look into it, they got a solution pushed a few days later. But reports kept coming in, some repeating old information and some new information that couldn't be replicated. Devs looked into it again, think they found the issue, solved it, and pushed it. Same thing: old info gets repeated, new situation is complicated, and now they're running out of ideas for what the issue might be. All of this is usually taken upon one guy whilst the others are working on another higher priority project (usually of strategic importance, like the LBU). Things come up, things take time, and some things are seemingly never done.

Development work isn't tough because it deals with code; it's tough because it involves systems that are massive in scope and complexity. That's why things aren't done with a snap of the fingers, or as perfectly as everyone imagines. We work at the speed and scale that works best for us, because working otherwise may not be possible.

Next, the Staff and Community side of things:

As bad as things might seem in terms of communication and community, things are actually improving quite a bit over what they were a year ago. We've made a point to try and improve communication and interaction with players recently, and that's one of the reasons we've been making a lot of changes. You can't deny that a lot of community-suggested and player-supported ideas that were previously denied as unrealistic are now becoming a reality.

• You guys wanted us to clamp down on hackers? We rolled out OCS.
• You guys wanted to change hacking offenses to a first offense permanent ban? We conducted two large surveys on the matter, and then rolled out that policy.
• You guys wanted staff members who could deal with clan matters, as opposed to general clan anarchy? You got the Clan Staff Program, which is beginning to gear up for its next major project soon if all goes well.
• You guys didn't want a leaderboard reset, or maybe you did? Maybe you just wanted new stats? We attended to everyone with the new Leaderboard Update, which is coming soon.
• You wanted an ability to reset your own stats back in early 2014? Stats reset tokens!
• Clean up the Clan section? Did that too! Across 7 days of moving disbanded clan threads! (Seriously, thank you to everyone who helped with that)
• No more Trash talk? In the works!

There's probably more, but that's all the things I can think of off the top of my head.

Things get complicated and might take time, though. If anything requires developer attention, it falls into the dev situation described above. If the idea seems to have a low priority or be rather unimportant, it might get overlooked and forgotten about in the bustle to fulfill daily responsibilities and higher priorities. Sometimes things just naturally require time to properly set up and organize. And then there's the question of whether an idea is worth pursuing or not.

That last topic is the trickiest of all, because not everyone sees the big picture, but they feel strongly about it.
Some may be in favor of something that may unknowingly be harmful in ways they don't realize, like bringing back Asia servers; AS was not able to support itself in the past, so why should we devote money, resources, effort, and time (that could be spent elsewhere) into a region that has already proven itself to not be beneficial? Others might feel strongly about a certain policy because it affects them and their friends, but does not take into account the residual benefits upon others or upon the network as a whole (lowering Youtube requirements is one such example). And then there are the cases where players and staff clash against each other over punishments and policies. People have their reasons, but they don't always agree. And then there's 1.8; not even gonna say any more.
Ultimately the staff must make and uphold the decision that we feel is best for the network, even if others disagree.

But the good news is that people, policies, and ideas change, as demonstrated by many recent reforms. Honestly, sometimes it's just a matter of waiting for an opportune time for us to actually devote time to coming up with the best solution. And sometimes it's a matter of finding the right facts or argument, like with the hacker policy change.
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I'm reading a lot of other suggestions in the thread too, many of them good and heard before.

But the same principles apply as described above. Suggestions are nice, but they are worthless if they can't be put into action. The staff does what it can, but the community must offer its support as well. And we must always remember that things are always more complicated than they might seem. But that shouldn't stop us from working to make MCGamer a better place for everyone.

I should know. It's my job.

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2456 words. New Record.
But I hope the length of my post demonstrates how complicated these situations really are. You can't fix everything in 100 words.

 

[Vinyl]

There were ideas that passed across Chad's desk about enforcing teaming by scrambling everyone's names and skins in a game. I liked that idea, and it was probably the most viable plan. However, people were quick to point out that it would be easily fooled by teamers chatting through Skype. All they'd need to do is, "Hey buddy. Meet me at ___ so I know who you are," and they've already beat the system.

I suggested this a while ago. People still have the ability to team, but the whole idea behind it wasn't to eliminate teaming, it was to remove the needed 24/7 moderation.

Plus it means you could call it "Incognito Games" which has the greatest ring to it I've ever heard.

But it's the Dev-side perspective that gives me a little more hope. I was recently talking with a Dev, and he said that he could implement a blank filter for trash talking. So if the filter comes across a term like, "eZ", "rekt", and "l2p", the message will not be put in chat for players to see, and the messaging player will receive an automated message reminding them to play nice. This automated system would remove much of the burden from the staff, and it would be minimally invasive. We will still have to deal with new trash talk that people invent just to get around the filter (such as saying "lemon squeezy", which is apparently a thing?), but that's a small price to pay considering we'd successfully filter a large majority of the trash talk offenses.

Just want to point out that we already had this, but it was removed in MCGamer v2 when they switched to an older build. The great part about it then was we didn't have Admins announcing it so no one knew.
*Cough*

 

[Nikola]

Could you leave me alone?

You said nice so I'm wondering what it is about

 

[Rusty]

Hey guys, I thought this would be a great chance to respond to a few of the points that CreeperFarts made in his video. If you haven’t already you should go watch that to get an idea of what this post is about (Also why are you reading this thread if you haven’t watched that video).

The first point I want to make is on the state of maps.
We recently did a bit of work on the map dev server that allows us to more easily update, add and remove maps. We recognise maps as a huge part of the game and we want to make sure that we don’t disappoint.
The idea on voting for the map you are currently playing is actually a pretty good suggestion. At the very least it would allow us to easily get a judge of what the community thinks about each map. I’m not sure if we’ll implement that idea in its entirety (there are a lot of other factors to take into account), but the idea is something we’ll certainly take a look at.


On to the next point, solo games. The discussion of whether a solo sg game is necessary, and whether it’d add or detract from the experience is brought up every few weeks or so, and we arrive at the same conclusion each time: Solo Q vs Team Q would hurt more than it would help the issue.
A few things to consider are how we would enforce the rule, what effect it has on the game and how that affects the overall experience of the server. Other communities that implement a Solo Q version of SG tend to not enforce it well, with the teaming rule often being the most broken rule on the server.
Any time that the mods could spend enforcing this rule would also be much better spent catching hackers who, in my opinion have a much larger impact on the game than teams.
As is, if you’re going in solo you know to expect teams. They’re a hazard, much like falling from parkour or being trapped are situations you aim to avoid. If you’re not expecting a team, and you can’t even form a team yourself to deal with them.
And what constitutes a team? Is trucing a team? The entire situation is such a gray area that there’s no simple solution to the problem.

Disrespectful Messages, abuse, bad sportsmanship, whatever you call it. It’s bad for the community, I completely agree.
We actually had this point raised recently and it lead to a new system being added to filter bad sportsmanship in the game, and new rules being added to prevent such toxic behaviour. We play the game too and we know how bad it can get at times. We don’t want to be a community known for being rude to each other. At the end of the game it’s supposed to be an enjoyable experience, and we want to ensure that after every game.

And for the final point, how we interact with the community. We recently started improving how we act with the community as we noticed it was an area that was sort of ignored in the heat of the v2 development, and was never really brought back to where we wanted it to be.
We’ve been introducing stuff like the Patch Notes that come out every other week, and when we get further along with our current project, being the gametype revamps, to start releasing development blogs to show you guys what we’ve been up to and even getting some early input on what you guys want to see. Communication in all forms, such as new features, bugs that need to be fixed urgently, are all a focus of ours.
The Disguise rework was a bit of a first step in this regard, having our goal be to improve the overall quality of the server and provide a better experience and communicate what’s happening with you guys when we do it.
We want to move forward as a community and we want to start showing the community side of it. We’d be nothing really without the support of you guys and we want to hammer that in

We’ll be reading the thread and replies you guys make to this video and commenting on any further points you have.

 

[N0va]

bring back rlly old maps and i'll shut up

 

[am0r_]

i swear to god if they keep demons breeze, breeze island or any map based off that. omfg, they are literally the worst maps I've ever played. Not because I suck at this game, because those maps suck. Mainly water and mainly lava? jesus every time i play that map I either drown or burn to death.

I understand demons breeze and all, but drowning? lmao no, that map its get a route or spend the whole game with no armor, no food, and no weapon

 

[am0r_]

And you should bring back the map that has mixed biomes one of the biomes is nether and another is iceland, idk

 

[am0r_]

I love the solo and team games, but where would that leave clans?

Only professional clans have servers, the smaller ones are just there.

 

[N0va]

Only professional clans have servers, the smaller ones are just there.

please, try not to triple post; if you have anything to add, use the edit button to the bottom left of your post

 

[am0r_]

please, try not to triple post; if you have anything to add, use the edit button to the bottom left of your post

noticed that

 

[JukingKraken]

What i'd like to change is 1.7 back. 1.8 pvp is not really working out for me. I mean of course now MCSG is losing players now because back in 1.7, MCSG was a huge community, And i mean HUUUUGE. MCSG lost at least 5k players i think. i don't remember but now MCSG just has like 2k or 1k players on and the community is losing track of there possision (my spelling is bad). Anyways, in 1.8 now, so many hackers have high chances to hack on the server and never get caught. Even with video proof or any type of evidence, MCSG will barely ban these type of players. Im just stating my opinion that 1.8 should be re placed back with 1.7. Also i want 1.7 back because in 1.8, you get fall damage from 2 blocks high which is annoying when you get targeted plus, There are high chances people might hit you from 4-7 blocks, yes it's true. I've seen MANY and i mean MANY people kill me from 5-7 blocks. I am not denying this but it's a true statement. I won't judge Anthony #CreeperFarts but i think your right. All those opinion you stated are what i agree also dude. Keep up the good work too bro!

 

[The_Panda_Man]

Teaming will always be a part of the game. If you can't beat them, you might as well join them. If you ever want to play with someone, you can always hop on our TeamSpeak and you will probably find plenty of people willing to play with you.
Also, if you catch a moderator not doing their job please report it to Sr. Staff via the forums or TeamSpeak. Have a good day! c:

i never said i didn't like teaming.... i team with friends my self. but when its gets to 3 teams 4 teams and all the way up to clan battles! that's when i get frustrated. all i want is the best for this server and i feel that making separate lobbies for solo game play would be a very good idea! never had anything against teaming.. some people just wanna have fun and enjoy the game but thats kinda hard when people random team against you :/ all I am trying to say nothing negative towards the server just speaking my word as an active player