Hierarchical Forums

[Mamiamato24]

Hi

There's been a pressing topic that I wanted to discuss for ages now, and I think this is the perfect opportunity to do so. With the MCGamer awards just around the corner, it will be emphasized even more when members will have to make decisions.

Over these past few months, there have been a multitude of up-and-rising forumers, getting their names out there by any means they can. Forumers like Miner9823, Mooclan and BitoBain have presented themselves with a strong prominence, prestige and almost superiority over everyone else. What I'd like to discuss is not these people I've specified, but how the forums work in general and how people perceive each other.

In my eyes, there are a few categories of forumers, similar to a typical democratic society of today.

1. Unknown/Barely known: These types barely post anything, and people will rarely/never recognize them anywhere. Often, people are oblivious to their judgement, and completely ignore their opinions.
2. Semi-Known: These forumers present often, attempting to project their name out there. Though they post frequently, they don't get very much attention and many feel discouraged.
3. Famous/Popular: The final, and most prominent category, are the types that pretty much dominate the forums. Everything they say is heard, understood and taken into consideration. They receive more recognition than they could ever ask for.

It seems that with all this talk of forumers being better than other forumers, we seem to be oblivious to the fact of what forums are in the first place. They are a place where people can discuss topics, give their opinions on ideas and express themselves. Now, it seems like popular ones are like trademarked brands, and have connections to the government. Their opinions, and pretty much everything they say and do, is superior to everybody else. Their judgement is heightened and everything they say will be heard.

And what about the general population, the bourgeoisie and the peasants? What about them? What kind of recognition will they ever receive? When will their input ever matter?

"Well shouldn't we consider the fact that some forumers are better than others? Some put loads of effort into their posts, shouldn't they receive some recognition?"
No. Let me explain.
Just because someone writes a seventeen paragraph essay on why they should implement or remove a certain feature, it does not mean it has any superior meaning to someone who replies with a one line response. This place is supposed to be a forum of equality, where nobody is better than anyone else and everybody matters. It is also not a place to go if you want to get attention, there are other ways of doing so, like becoming a celebrity if you're into that sort of thing.

These forums share a lot in common with our regular society. There are the elite celebrities; the Kardashians, Justin Bieber, Bill Gates, etc, and then there's the general population. We often do feel envious of their success, and it seems like achieving the success that they have is far too much of a daunting task for us to ever consider. We are stuck, static, our dreams feeling miles, light years away.

So what does this all mean? Well first off, we should be envisioning a place full of equality, where everybody matters and nobody is superior to anyone else. We are all humans sitting in front of our computers, or laptops or whatever. Our intellectual capacity, looks or general skill at the game shouldn't segregate us any longer.

Secondly, similarly to the topic I am discussing, in my opinion, the MCGamer awards should cease. It's the same process every single time; people telling people to vote for them and the same people winning in specific categories. This ties in to what I'm saying; we shouldn't have anything that will make anyone appear better or more skilled in any way, shape or form. People that pour tons of effort into what they do are ones who do it voluntarily and shouldn't be expecting popularity or recognition in return.

What can we do?
Unfortunately, this will probably never change entirely. We will never reach entire equilibrium no matter how hard we attempt to do so. What we could do, however, is promoting it. We need to stop being attention seeking; constantly searching for attention. In the end, if we keep doing so, we will never find happiness in anything else. We will constantly crave people knowing and chanting our names. Keep in mind, these forums are supposed to be a simple past time, where anybody could log on and people could listen to them. Don't ruin it for everyone else.

If you've reached this point, and have no idea what I am saying at all, then may I suggest taking a look at the "members" tab. That, right there, is an example of what I am saying. People appearing better than other people, people spamming posts and likes just because they want a higher number and want to be known (I have done this myself, and unfortunately, there isn't anything I could do. I was ignorant and oblivious to this.) People shouldn't have the urge to seek attention. This shouldn't be the only way they could actually, someday, matter. This... this forum hierarchy... has to go.

Notes

*This is probably overemphazised a ton. I am aware this is just a website, but I felt that overemphasizing it was the only way I was going to get the message out, and not just perceiving it as an innocent and unimportant issue.

**I am not bashing at all on people who have a lot of posts, likes or who are considered to be in Famous/Popular category. I was solely using the category to put everything in perspective.

***It's 11:30 pm, at this point I really don't know what I'm saying and I just want this thread to end.

****I am also not bashing on the MCGamer Awards in any way, shape or form. I'm just giving my opinion, like how these forums are supposed to be.

~Mamiamato24

 

[ViolentKitten]

"Well shouldn't we consider the fact that some forumers are better than others? Some put loads of effort into their posts, shouldn't they receive some recognition?"
No. Let me explain.
Just because someone writes a seventeen paragraph essay on why they should implement or remove a certain feature, it does not mean it has any superior meaning to someone who replies with a one line response. This place is supposed to be a forum of equality, where nobody is better than anyone else and everybody matters. It is also not a place to go if you want to get attention, there are other ways of doing so, like becoming a celebrity if you're into that sort of thing.

I somewhat disagree with this statement. Prominent forumers are prominent for a reason - they present well-thought out, sophisticated views on subjects that people enjoy to read. Of course, it doesn't make them superior to those who respond with a one-sentence reply, however their views may be more highly regarded because they present strong and lengthy arguments that persuade the person who is reading to believe the same thing, compared to someone stating their opinion without too much factual backing etc. Those who make the 'appeal to the head' and provide a very factual and persuasive post tend to be more influential to the reader and be more highly regarded as a post.

It is a shame that the efforts of the less-recognized posters may be overshadowed by those prominent posters, but they are recognized and highly regarded for a reason.

+1 for a very interesting and thought-out post

 

[Zeff]

You have perfectly described the structure of every single forum on the planet.

 

[MoLoToV]

I somewhat disagree with this statement. Prominent forumers are prominent for a reason - they present well-thought out, sophisticated views on subjects that people enjoy to read. Of course, it doesn't make them superior to those who respond with a one-sentence reply, however their views may be more highly regarded because they present strong and lengthy arguments that persuade the person who is reading to believe the same thing, compared to someone stating their opinion without too much factual backing etc. Those who make the 'appeal to the head' and provide a very factual and persuasive post tend to be more influential to the reader and be more highly regarded as a post.

It is a shame that the efforts of the less-recognized posters may be overshadowed by those prominent posters, but they are recognized and highly regarded for a reason.

+1 for a very interesting and thought-out post

We share the same opinion on this, no need for me to type it all out again, I guess

 

[BitoBain]

Wow. I'm not used to seeing massive posts from you, Mamiamoto!

Thanks for this-I feel like it was directed towards me.

I've always subconsciously known that the forums were hierarchical, but seeing it layed out like this makes me see things differently. I never knew the forums were seen like this by others, even the legendary Mamiamoto. However, the major difference between a political hierarchy within a government, and something like a forum is that on a forum, there is a lot of social mobility. The internet is far less judgmental than the modern world. If someone wants to make ten detailed, thought-provoking posts, and quickly become known for quality posts, then there is nothing stopping them other than a possible language barrier, which I realize is a problem for many people. People with language barriers often get made fun of too, which is totally unacceptable.

Anyways, I'm a little confused as to what your conclusion is here. Is it that you don't have to have high quality posts to become a high quality forumer? Or is it that we should count every post as equal, even if one is a huge essay and another just says "yes"? At some point you do have to honor people who explain things well or make the forums dramatic. If the whole forum was full of one sentence posts, then I don't think we would learn anything from each other, nor have very much fun. It also wouldn't be fun if everybody was a long essay type poster. I have always viewed it as different people being good at different things on the forums. Want to hear some dark jokes? Talk to Blazerboy. Want to crack somebody up with randomness? Talk to TheRealAussie. Want to get a balanced view of a controversial topic? Talk to Mooclan. I don't like the fact that we often blatantly state who are the best forumers, we are all simply different. Some people are more balanced posters, and get little attention because they are the "middle class", and yet they may put just as much effort in as a "top poster." As of late, I think I've been too much credit, just because I am a native English speaker and I can make posts detailed. I really haven't contributed very much to the community, to be honest. I will admit I've sought for attention at times, but I do so because I'm trying to reform myself, and portraying myself how I wish I was both in real life and on the internet helps me get there.

As for individual posts, I judge a quality of a post based on it it says something interesting, whether it be funny, serious, or emotional. The more emotion a post evokes, or the more solidly it supports an idea, the better. As much as we wish we could make everyone equal, humans are simply not accustomed to thinking like that. Let's make an example.

Let's say you and some friends have started lemonade business, and you have a meeting to discuss whether to move your location. You have five friends in this business, but one of them only shows up to sell lemonade once. Three of them show up sometimes and express moderate concern for your business, while the final friend shows up every time and takes a business class to learn how to maximize profits. Should you have a meeting and all five show up, which one are you going to listen to the most? If you have a vote and the most dedicated member votes to keep the current location, how much does that really say? Does he have the final say?

Well, that's enough for now, since it's so late. I'll definitely take your ideas into account in future posts.

 

[MJM239]

"Well shouldn't we consider the fact that some forumers are better than others? Some put loads of effort into their posts, shouldn't they receive some recognition?"
No. Let me explain.
Just because someone writes a seventeen paragraph essay on why they should implement or remove a certain feature, it does not mean it has any superior meaning to someone who replies with a one line response. This place is supposed to be a forum of equality, where nobody is better than anyone else and everybody matters. It is also not a place to go if you want to get attention, there are other ways of doing so, like becoming a celebrity if you're into that sort of thing.

This part I found in particular pretty interesting, and I honestly agree with it.

I feel as though really popular forumers almost feel the need to post long responses since that's what they're well known for, and whenever they do make these walls of text, it's well received by the community when they could have talked about nonsense the whole time. (This isn't always the case, but yes, this is an issue sometimes in writing.) Back when I came on here a lot, my posts were either short and straight to the point, or more detailed when I needed it to be.

^ Although this isn't really what the main discussion is, I still agree with this/the rest of the thread.

 

[RC_4777]

This part I found in particular pretty interesting, and I honestly agree with it.

I feel as though really popular forumers almost feel the need to post long responses since that's what they're well known for, and whenever they do make these walls of text, it's well received by the community when they could have talked about nonsense the whole time. (This isn't always the case, but yes, this is an issue sometimes in writing.) Back when I came on here a lot, my posts were either short and straight to the point, or more detailed when I needed it to be.

^ Although this isn't really what the main discussion is, I still agree with this/the rest of the thread.

I've actually been interested in doing an experiment where I write a decent amount on a popular topic but then further within it I tell people to not comment on it and see how many people say how great the thread was. We could see how many people actually read the long stuff.

I think that in recent times some people write a bit too much sometimes. Eventually they're just repeating or talking about something that's not very relevant. Being concise helps your point to get to more people.

The internet is far less judgmental than the modern world.

I know this is on a tangent, but I'm starting to disagree more and more with this statement. People on the internet are incredibly quick to sling hate based on one statement and do it constantly. Someone likes a game that isn't super popular? They're sure to get put down. Guy wears a shirt with girls on it? Doesn't matter that he landed a comment on an asteroid, he's an awful human being. People are quicker to openly judge someone online because they don't have to tell it to one's face.

 

[TotalyNotHawk62]

This is extremely interesting. I like your idea, I think its a little more complex though. Props to you though on coming up with this. I haven't been this impressed by these forums in a while.

 

[Mooclan]

I think it's safe to say that I'm someone who is now regarded as a member of the third category (Famous/Popular Forumites), but I've also spent the first year of my time on MCSG in the other two categories.


...I'm trying to write this with as little arrogance as possible.. uhm...


Kitten and Bito said it pretty well, I suppose.
Those who are regarded as 'better' forum posters do have a reason for that - they're put in more cumulative time and effort.

-Snip-
I wrote a few paragraphs and then realized I got completely off-topic so I deleted it.

really popular forumers almost feel the need to post long responses since that's what they're well known for, and whenever they do make these walls of text, it's well received by the community when they could have talked about nonsense the whole time

THIS
^^^^
THIS
^^^^
THIS
^^^^

In the past, I've felt so pressured to write a long, detailed post about a topic that I really don't care about, just because I was expected to, even if I really had nothing to say on the topic. (To be honest, this is one of them. There's not much left for me to say.)

 

[AlgerWaterlow]

I recently took, and passed with flying colors mind you, a technical writing class and it's driven me to write in a shorter, more concise manner. I dislike seeing these "word bombs" on the forums. A well-written short message shows that you put more thought into what you wrote and tried to condense it into the most easily understandable form it could take. A well-written long one could just be someone talking off the top of their head, which is what I myself have been guilty of - not so much on forums, but more with 10-20 page research papers where my topic is so specific that there are a distinct lack of relevant sources.

Personal experiences aside, technical writing taught me to avoid excess verbiage (words) and to write "like a lawyer." If you've ever read or heard a police report being read, the officers write them in very basic, concise language. Human ears (and attention spans) can appreciate short and to the point and tend to equivocate flowery language with poetry and persuasion rather than objectivity and fact.

 

[BitoBain]

I recently took, and passed with flying colors mind you, a technical writing class and it's driven me to write in a shorter, more concise manner. I dislike seeing these "word bombs" on the forums. A well-written short message shows that you put more thought into what you wrote and tried to condense it into the most easily understandable form it could take. A well-written long one could just be someone talking off the top of their head, which is what I myself have been guilty of - not so much on forums, but more with 10-20 page research papers where my topic is so specific that there are a distinct lack of relevant sources.

Personal experiences aside, technical writing taught me to avoid excess verbiage (words) and to write "like a lawyer." If you've ever read or heard a police report being read, the officers write them in very basic, concise language. Human ears (and attention spans) can appreciate short and to the point and tend to equivocate flowery language with poetry and persuasion rather than objectivity and fact.

You know, you're a really good forumer nowadays. You're way more interesting to read than you used to be... perhaps it was that magical writing class. No exaggeration, I laugh at 2/3 of your posts out loud, yet they still always say something thought provoking.

Anyways, I think what we like to read really depends on who we are. I like reading medium or large posts, but not massive posts. I also despise it when people overuse adverbs, prepositions, and transition words. (Oddly enough, we are taught to write like this in school, even though it makes many of us go bonkers. In my opinion it makes things less organized, not more.)

On the other hand, it's obvious that a lot of people can't stand to read anything longer than a standard meme. A well known, well respected member in the community can easily write a one page post and expect over ten likes. It's a little disgusting, but it's how things are. On the other end of the spectrum, I get the impression that some people just mindlessly like long posts because they appear to have had a lot of work put into them, even if they say little. Sometimes when I post 500-1000 word posts, they will get a like seconds after they are posted, which shouldn't happen. READ SOMEONE'S POST BEFORE YOU LIKE IT! WHAT IF IN THE MIDDLE OF A LONG POST IT STARTS TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY ENJOY KILLING PUPPIES?

In the past, I've felt so pressured to write a long, detailed post about a topic that I really don't care about, just because I was expected to, even if I really had nothing to say on the topic. (To be honest, this is one of them. There's not much left for me to say.)

So true. If you expect someone to write about something they don't want to, then they will ultimately produce a low quality post. I think it's quite rude when people tag Mooclan every time there is a controversial thread, as he often doesn't want to reply.

 

[AlgerWaterlow]

I don't mind transition words between paragraphs as it helps connect thoughts. OTHERWISE, your sentences might appear disjointed. >.>