My solution to the controversial topic "deleting evidence"

[RC_4777]

I don't see why people get banned for this in the first place. Something's that's easy to do on accident even if you are aware of the rule shouldn't get anyone banned for good. Sure, give people a warning not to do that and take action if it's a repeat problem, but I don't know why people get permbanned for what's often a simple mistake.

 

[evil_gnome123]

on the topic of it being a perm ban was that what was edited in to the rules on the 19th of august? and how is purposely removing evidence determined?
"you might be subject to a ban if it is found you are purposely removing evidence."

 

[Ephiza]

We aren't changing the rules because of people not reading them; that's like saying if I murdered someone, I shouldn't be punished because I didn't know it was illegal/wrong to kill people.
(If you want a less obvious example, it's like saying I can get away with jaywalking in Seattle because I didn't know it was illegal.)

But this isn't real life, now is it? It's a video game. If everyone else BUT people who delete evidence get a 2nd chance, that's a bit unfair now don't you think?

 

[Sean]

The report abuse is a paper trail and we can see who gave us the evidence.

Oh I know what you mean now, as in you are given evidence on TS you cannot be sure that they are who they say they are.

We aren't changing the rules because of people not reading them; that's like saying if I murdered someone, I shouldn't be punished because I didn't know it was illegal/wrong to kill people.
(If you want a less obvious example, it's like saying I can get away with jaywalking in Seattle because I didn't know it was illegal.)

You got me there, nothing really I can say back to that I guess But in your own opinion honestly do you think it is a bit of an excessive punishment. Put your self in a scenario, that you made a report abuse and a few months later you want to clean up your YouTube channel. The next day you realize you are permanently removed from the network. Wouldn't you feel a bit hard done by?

 

[oshisomethingmeh]

In my personal opinion, the permanent ban for removing evidence is completely fair and well-deserved for people who do remove evidence. It's not like you have to pay for each video that you have on your YouTube account.

I think that the only 3 people who liked this are staff members speaks for itself...

 

[oshisomethingmeh]

Oh I know what you mean now, as in you are given evidence on TS you cannot be sure that they are who they say they are.
You got me there, nothing really I can say back to that I guess But in your own opinion honestly do you think it is a bit of an excessive punishment. Put your self in a scenario, that you made a report abuse and a few months later you want to clean up your YouTube channel. The next day you realize you are permanently removed from the network. Wouldn't you feel a bit hard done by?

No he doesn't have you there. Think about it this way, hacking gives you a warning before a permanent ban because you might not know it isn't allowed. Of course you should be punished when you break a rule, know it's in place or not but a permanent ban is stupid when a worse crime yields a warning.

 

[Le0]

Generally I think they are lenient and reasonably fair with the rule. Like, if you legitimately did not know and say, started a new Youtube but deleted your old one with hacker videos on it, you probably won't get banned, or if you did you would likely be unbanned. The rule is only really in place to stop people purposely deleting evidence, as they have had in the past where it's incriminating to themselves or friends, was a famous person, etc. When people start saying "oh, but I didn't know" but it was likely that they did... well that's a grey area.

But then, I don't really know.

Meh, IMO if you delete evidence on purpose you deserve a ban.

 

[RC_4777]

Generally they are lenient and reasonably fair with the rule. Like, if you legitimately did not know and say, started a new Youtube but deleted your old one with hacker videos on it, you probably won't get banned, or if you did you would likely be unbanned. The rule is only really in place to stop people purposely deleting evidence, as they have had in the past where it's incriminating to themselves or friends, was a famous person, etc.

But meh, IMO if you delete evidence on purpose you deserve a ban.

I agree if you do it on purpose. The problem is it can be hard to tell/prove true intent :/

 

[Le0]

I agree if you do it on purpose. The problem is it can be hard to tell/prove true intent :/

Exactly, I literally just edited that into my post

 

[oshisomethingmeh]

Generally I think they are lenient and reasonably fair with the rule. Like, if you legitimately did not know and say, started a new Youtube but deleted your old one with hacker videos on it, you probably won't get banned, or if you did you would likely be unbanned. The rule is only really in place to stop people purposely deleting evidence, as they have had in the past where it's incriminating to themselves or friends, was a famous person, etc. When people start saying "oh, but I didn't know" but it was likely that they did... well that's a grey area.

But then, I don't really know.

Meh, IMO if you delete evidence on purpose you deserve a ban.

But sometimes it's honorable. Sometimes you know a ban that's your fault isn't rightful, yet the staff deny the dispute for whatever stupid reason. Say, it's obviously not hacks, but some senior mod who thinks it is hacks denies the ban dispute ignorantly (it happens. Don't think they're perfect.) I would delete the evidence. I won't be the cause of a b.s. ban. Wouldn't you?

 

[Fusionnuggets]

Yay let's get banned for attempting to help the server we love!

 

[Nick30Brodeur]

A few months back I would record every game that I was in to ban hackers that I would see (and get montage clips ;D ), but now that I've heard of this rule (let's be honest 90% of us haven't read all of the rules and haven't heard of this rule until now), I am hesitant to record hackers that I see. Mostly for 2 main reasons: one is that the person hacking will obviously just purchase a bunch of MCAlts, change their IP or something, come back on MCSG and continue hacking, thus wasting my time and effort completely. Secondly (and more importantly): this rule; if anything ever goes wrong with YouTube (accidentally delete account, video gets flagged by the hacker's friends and gets taken down by YT, etc.), I would be banned forever.

I don't want to disrespect staff by saying this, but THIS RULE IS DUMB, it makes legitimate MCSG players who record and try to ban hackers hesitant to do so. That's probably why there's been such a HUGE jump in the population of hackers on MCSG in the last few months, it's because people are now scared to upload evidence, myself included.

We aren't changing the rules because of people not reading them; that's like saying if I murdered someone, I shouldn't be punished because I didn't know it was illegal/wrong to kill people.

In response to Devin's post, this example isn't the best, a better example would be: If someone was murdered (caught hacking), he is only put in jail for a week on first offence, and finally sentenced for life if done a second time, but if the scientist who is doing the forensics accidentally misplaces the DNA samples that prove the person guilty of the murder (the person who puts up ban evidence), he's put in jail for life. THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN! The scientist may be fired from his job for being a clumsy idiot (temp-ban) but not put in jail FOR LIFE, for a complete accident like this.

Oh ya, and the thing about deleting evidence from your channel to get your friend unbanned, that's BS. I mean really, who would have their friend record them hacking so that he can delete the evidence and have the hacking friend post a ban dispute and get unbanned since there's no evidence anymore. Okay, maybe a few idiots may try and do this; like 0.1% of all hacker reports may have this intent. But the other 99.9% of hacker reports are the legitimately good people of MCSG trying to get the dirty hackers out of their servers. Yes, sometimes mistakes are made and evidence might get deleted for whatever reason, but honestly these people shouldn't be perm banned for something that might not even be their fault.

This rule is much too harsh and makes it so that the best people of the community are banned: the people who actually want to see change in the community by recording and attempting to ban hackers. What I suggest to the people that want to record and ban hackers is that you should open up anonymous YT and MCSG forum accounts and post all of the evidence using these accounts, so you put yourself at no risk when trying to ban a hacker if the evidence somehow is deleted.

For all the reasons above and more, I believe that this rule must be changed.